How Steven Built a UX Consultancy After Being Laid Off After 17 Years At The Same Company

Intro: [00:00:00] Hey, I’m Sarah Doody a user researcher and product designer with 20 years of experience. In 2017, I noticed something a little ironic. UX and product people, despite being great at designing experiences for other people, often struggle to design their own careers. That’s why I created Career Strategy Lab and this podcast to help you navigate your UX job search, grow in your current role, and avoid skill and salary plateaus all in a chill and BS free way.

So whether you’re. Stuck in your job search or wondering what’s next in your UX career. You are in the right place.

Episode Intro: Hey, this is Erin. I am one of the coaches inside of Career Strategy Lab, and I wanna let you know that this episode you’re about to listen to, number one, is awesome. And number two is actually from our open house. So in this conversation, you should know that there were other people on this call and there was a live audience.

So if some of the editing seems a little bit weird or abrupt, that’s why it should still make sense [00:01:00] for you. There’s so many gems of wisdom to grab from this episode, so we hope you enjoy, and if you do like this format where you really can get to know someone and learn more about their career journey, please let us know.

You can send Sarah a LinkedIn message, or you can email hello@sarahdoody.com We love the feedback and we wanna create more of what you enjoy and find helpful. All right, let’s get into the episode.

General Intro

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Sarah Doody: we are really excited for you to be with us today. I’m Sarah Doody in case we haven’t met yet. I’ll share more about, uh, myself later. Essentially I’ve been working user experience for 22 years, and in 2017 I kind of, unexpectedly, uh, came into this world of UX career coaching, which some of you know me from.

And so today we’re really excited to do a q and a with, people who have gone through my UX career coaching and, and job search program. So really two purposes. Number one, so you can [00:02:00] hear from real people in terms of. What is working right now you know, in the past year or so, uh, regarding the job search, et cetera.

And also give you some practical tips for maybe your job search right now. And also help you better understand what I do inside my UX career coaching program in case you are thinking of joining it. So that’s our little. Outline for today, if you will.

Steven Intro

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Sarah Doody: Um, okay. Steven, give us your intro please.

Steven Shay: Yeah, I’ve been, uh, working in digital design of some sort throughout my whole career in way too many years.

But probably the past 15, 18 years I’ve been working as a UX director, senior UX director, then eventually, uh, vice president of a UX group at a digital agency, uh, globally. But then, you know, layoffs come and things like that happened last year, which was a shock to me ’cause I’d worked there for 17 years.

So [00:03:00] I, uh, kind of floundered and found CSL and have been, uh, in a long-term contract and very happy in my contract, and now starting my own consultancy business, uh, since then as well. And yeah, just, just. Finding new clients and working with the one contract that I have, which take it’s like a fractional, uh, product design director.

And then I work with other smaller agencies to help uplevel their, uh, UX teams or help them figure out how to use AI within their processes. So, uh, yeah, it’s been a, a fun journey trying to kind of reinvent myself.

Sarah Doody: And if you remember, how did you ever hear about Career Strategy Lab outta curiosity?

Steven Shay: You know what?

I had followed you, uh, on YouTube for probably two years before that. So just getting advice and just, I thought it was interesting what you were saying but never thought I would need it, God forbid, you know? Yeah. But I, but I did, and I kind of, you know, regret not having, maybe joined six months earlier and just getting my assets together.

I had nothing. I had no portfolio. I had no [00:04:00] resume. I was not prepared. So that’s my first recommendation to anyone. If you, if you have a full-time job, you’re still considering, do it now anyway before you need it, and you’re stressed about it.

Sarah Doody: I will not argue with that advice.

Sarah Q1

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Sarah Doody: alright, so I am really curious to kind of kick off our conversation around you know, confidence comes up so much not just in our careers, but also our job search, whether it’s confidence in your portfolio, in your resume, and your ability to succeed in interviews and et cetera.

Steven A1

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Sarah Doody: I’m curious, you know, to hear more about what, what you were doing before Career Strategy Lab and how far along you were maybe, getting or if you were even applying and like where your confidence meter was at before career strategy lab,

Steven Shay: I think my meter was at.

So I’d gotten laid off and I think there was probably a four or five month gap between that time and when I joined CSL, my confidence was probably like 25% [00:05:00] confident, 75% not confident in my story and how to tell it. And I think, you know, having like a lot of us have a lot of experience, how do you cu all that down into a story that makes sense for the people you’re talking to.

And also then generally to places like LinkedIn and on a portfolio and, and other places where you’re not, where you may maybe don’t know who you’re talking to, but you’re hopefully talking to a hiring manager or a, or someone in HR or talent person. So it kind of went from, the good news is, you know, that confidence went to like 80%, confident to 20%.

Like, I’m still human. You still kind of second guess yourself before you go into these things. Uh, because I went from like, you know, not being able to communicate those 20 plus years of experience to like, Hey, I have a system here. I have experts in a really supportive community, which was the biggest surprise to kind of lean on to help me build all these, uh, assets and to build my foundation, uh, that I can build my story on top of.

And then that foundation I can [00:06:00] pull from at any time when I’m, whenever I’m talking to someone or trying to reach out in other ways as well. So I think for me it was telling my story and, and refining it. And then also stop measuring myself against like how many jobs I can apply for, you know, and it helped me like, refine the jobs and define the jobs I actually want versus just trying to get a job that fit the salary range in generally the the skills that I have.

Sarah Doody: And you mentioned the power, I guess, unexpected power and impact of the community that we have inside Career strategy Lab. And I’m curious, do you have any examples or does anything come to mind concerning mm-hmm. Like how that community contributed to that confidence boost?

Steven Shay: Yeah. Yeah. I, I actually didn’t know there was a whole message board in the community and, you know, multiple meetings a week.

I think I knew there was definitely reviews and critiques of your assets as you build them, but I didn’t know, uh, your cohorts would necessarily be there with you [00:07:00] along the way and you kind of see each other grow as well and help each other. And then on the side, people message you, you become, you know, friends on LinkedIn and things like that.

So you start to build, uh, some of those network. Relationships as well. And then also the board’s very active with, you know, job postings and, you know, people helping each other. Today I just did a, actually a critique of someone’s case study. I did. I, I channeled you all and I did a video critique of the case study because, uh, and sent it to ’em, uh, as well.

So, you know, tried to give back and it, I think it fulfills me just doing that as well helping people like they help me. So I think, uh, those are some great examples. And just the confidence, even if you just like post, Hey, I just created a new LinkedIn profile header. Can someone, can folks go take a look at it, gimme some quick feedback, and like within an hour you had five people giving you feedback, so amazing.

Sarah Doody: Yeah, I think the, the rapid feedback element is, is really powerful because it, it, it [00:08:00] reduces the amount of time that you’re left to sit there on your own. And second guess that LinkedIn profile header. Yeah. So it goes back to that idea of just like. Experimentation, get feedback early and often and don’t stay in a silo essentially.

Steven Shay: Right? Yeah. Keep moving, keep moving. And, and I think having the community helps you stay accountable a little bit too. Not that anyone’s getting on you about anything, but, and where you’re at, no one actually, you know, was, was looked down upon you for maybe not being as far along as maybe other people.

You know, people have lives and kids and, you know, things like that. So, uh, you know, just try your best.

Sarah Doody: Yeah. That, that accountability piece is something that I think a lot of people want in their job search. And I think there’s such power in just seeing the progress that other people are making, and that alone provides motivation.

So yeah, I think it’s kinda one of the byproducts of this community that, that we’ve [00:09:00] created.

Steven Shay: And also losing your job if, if you come into this after losing your job. It’s, I think so I just read something. It’s officially being designated a trauma, like a mental health trauma, like it’s can be shocking to people unless, you know, maybe you thought laughs are coming in.

Kind of doesn’t matter though. It’s such a life change. So I think having that community and then your experts and your team to help out and just being very supportive and positive is just something you, you can lean on and I think is necessary.

Sarah Doody: Well, thank you.

Steven Shay: Mm-hmm.

Sarah Q2

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Sarah Doody: okay, so we’ve heard a little bit about like where, where you were before you joined Career Strategy Lab and kind of what the first little bit amount of, little bit of time in career strategy Lab was like, and how it helped kind of set you on the right course to be able to go into the making of your resume portfolio, et cetera.

But I’m curious concerning. Any mindset shifts, and I use mindset a little bit usefully. It could be [00:10:00] like myths you had about the job search or yourself, or the hiring process.

Steven A2

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Steven Shay: the first specific myth was that your online portfolio is like the number one thing you need to worry about. And really, you know, that’s what I was worried about. As soon as I was laid off, I was like, oh, I gotta get a portfolio up soon. And a resume wasn’t even like, yeah, I can do a resume, not a big deal.

But then when I joined CSL, I realized getting that foundation set is really the most important part as well, because then it takes the pressure off of all making all the other things. And I think, you know, for the first couple months before I joined CSLI was busy trying to make a website and trying to do all these things and trying to get a resume and applying for jobs and trying to do all that at the same time.

And it was just, it was overwhelming to be honest with you, even though I had time as well. And I was also networking and meeting with people and yeah, reconnecting with folks. So it was a lot. And I think it helped me slow down. A little bit and focus on one thing at a time, kind of like, you know, the sprints that you have.

Mm-hmm. You go through each sprint and you, and each one builds upon, or is a foundation for the next [00:11:00] one. It’s for the next one. And you see how it all works. And, and I think also doing things like the, uh, 360 feedback from your former colleagues and friends was really eye-opening and, and great to hear, you know, good, good things.

And also things that they, you didn’t know, they thought about how you work. And things maybe, uh, you wanna either get across in an interview or you maybe wanna work on your, just as yourself. So I think that was really, uh, kind of like a mindset shift there as well. And just thinking about like, my career as like an operating system in a way of like, oh, I

Sarah Doody: like that.

Steven Shay: Yeah. Like, you know, it’s got all these parts that needs, need to keep updating it all the time. It’s going to be supporting you all the time and keep it moving forward. Uh, all the time and keep just updating it. So, you have to tend to it. And that’s something again, I didn’t do for all those years and should have.

So, yeah, that was the mindset shift for me.

Sarah Doody: I may or may not own the domain career operating system. I think I tried to buy it and someone else had it. But [00:12:00] you think you, you are reading my mind in, in terms of what I kind of envisioned career strategy lab, you know, could be. But yes, I really do see it as an operating system because, you know, we’ve had people who got hired two, three years ago and have either been able to get new jobs or promoted because they learned these timeless strategies and skills that, you know, were able to work for them years later.

And like my dream is that 10 years from now, people are telling me they got promoted again or hired again with stuff they learned. You know, in 2025

Steven Shay: definitely helped me get multiple contract jobs over the past 18 months and keep that going. And now I feel ready for any kind of networking meeting or any kind of, you know, quick interview or, uh, sending in any assets that I need to send before, uh, someone decides on whether they wanna hire me for a contract gig or not.[00:13:00]

So

Sarah Doody: can, can you share a little bit more about that? Because although career strategy lab, like, many people think it’s focused on getting hired at a company, my philosophy is you can go through the whole thing and use it to like land consulting clients and freelance clients. So can you share a little bit more about like one or two things that were really helpful for you in landing freelance and consulting clients?

Steven Shay: Yeah, I think getting that elevator pitch set, because in many cases, at least for my experience most of my freelance gigs came from networking. So all the networking assets that you have, how to, how to reach out to folks that maybe I haven’t reached out to and maybe worked with five years ago that work at a company I might wanna work with.

That’s how I got the, uh, contract I’ve had for 18 months, is I reached out to someone who used to be on my team and she said, talk to this SVP of product. And I did and they happened to need someone ’cause someone’s gone on maternity leave and there you go. And I’m still there. And it just, but because I had, you know, some of your assets, [00:14:00] uh, to lean on and kind of, uh, used throughout that process, when I met with the SVP of product, I had a little portfolio ready to go, uh, in, in a PDF form.

And I’ve been able to use that as kind of more like a little bit of an about me presentation when I send off like a proposal to someone if they haven’t met me. ’cause I’ve gotten all my contract gigs through networking, luckily. Mm-hmm. And I’ve been trying to just keep doing that, but in some cases.

Third, fourth, uh, kind of, uh, not generation third, fourth connections. So they don’t really know me, they know me through other people, so I do have to kind of present myself. In some cases, they just want, like, just sending me your email and some info about you on your website. Like they don’t even wanna have a conversation.

They’re gonna decide that quickly. Yeah. And they move. It’s a lot quicker than I’d say, you know? ’cause they need someone now, in many cases, they, they wouldn’t have an opening if they didn’t. So, yeah, it’s been very helpful in, uh, helping me keep up to speed on those things when I need to and tell my story in kind of an elevator pitch setting very quickly.

Versus, you know, long series of, uh, interviews, which it did help when I was looking for a full-time [00:15:00] job.

Sarah Doody: Yeah. Telling your story, regardless of whether you are seeking a full-time job, a, a, a freelance client, et cetera, all of these skills still apply, right? The mm-hmm. The people saying yes, whether they’re signing a job offer or signing the contract, you send them.

They wanna know, does this person have the skills to do the job I need done right now? So,

Steven Shay: yeah.

Sarah Doody: It, it’s all the same.

Steven Shay: I think it helped me realize too, ’cause I’m not a spring chicken, uh, that in contract gigs, uh, in some cases they want people with a lot of experience. Mm-hmm. Because they want people who can come in, they’re not gonna be stressed, they’ve been through it all.

They can come, you know, come and get the job done, be a player coach in many cases. And it helped me realize that that’s value I have, that maybe other folks don’t have that I can bring to some of these contract jobs. So that’s why I’m kind of going all in on that side of things.

Sarah Doody: Well that is amazing to hear you’ve had that contract for 18 months.

Steven Shay: Yeah. Yep. Still going

Sarah Q3

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Sarah Doody: okay, so my, I think my final question, but we might [00:16:00] squeeze in one more. I am curious to hear like if you could only pinpoint one thing about career strategy Lab that you haven’t spoken about already in terms of how it helped you navigate your job search, navigate consulting, or, you know, thinking about something you learned that you feel like is gonna be applicable even in your, you know, day-to-day job or frankly life for years to come, what comes to mind that, that you haven’t mentioned yet?

Steven A3

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Steven Shay: there was a point, and I’m looking through my Google drive of all my documents here, just, but I think one of the things that really helped me kind of define what I, what kind of job I want in a future.

’cause I, even though I, I had been laid off, I felt like, okay, well now you have another opportunity to try to try something new or try a different type of company or different type of design or whatever. So I think the career, I think it’s called the career value criteria or career value. Yeah. That really, and it’s helping me still to this day to [00:17:00] kind of keep me in check about what I like about my past roles, what I didn’t like, what I value as someone who’s working as part of a team and what I, what kind of team I don’t want what size team I wanna be on, or even an industry.

And it’s helped me streamline that. Even to this day when I pick and choose contract gigs, I’ve turned down some because I felt like, okay, that goes against what’s in that value. Yeah, it’s some money, but, it’s, I’m gonna be stressed. I’m gonna hate it. I’m gonna be very resentful on this, on this job, probably if I, if I take it.

And, and it’s never turned out bad, luckily, as something comes, you know, as soon as you close that door, something else pops up just randomly. So I think the career value criteria Yeah. Is something, and all these things, you just keep updating them as you learn more about yourself and what you like and don’t like and what you care about.

Sarah Doody: Yeah. We need to have like the yearly career strategy lab, operating system retreat or something. Upgrade.

Steven Shay: We’re doing a refresh upgrade 3.0 yeah. Yes. [00:18:00]

Sarah Doody: Coming soon. That’s your new

Steven Shay: conference. We just made it. There you go.

Sarah Doody: I guess. So,

Sarah Q4

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Sarah Doody: Um, okay, final last question, but the answer can only be one sentence or even like five words. So a little challenge here, but what would be your best tip for someone if they’re deciding to go through career strategy lab or if they like joined today?

So you can answer either question,

Steven Shay: You’re already paying the cost of missed opportunities right now, so c so commit to it.

Sarah Doody: I like that. Spoken like a true business owner

Steven Shay: Sunken cost. That’s right,

Sarah Doody: right.

Conclusion

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Sarah Doody: Well, thank you for joining us. We really appreciate your time and your thoughtfulness and just your, your honesty here.

Thank you. Thank you. I know a lot of people found this valuable.

So thank you for coming and I hope that you feel more confident, more [00:19:00] calm, more clarity about your situation or the job search We’re not gonna sugarcoat that it’s easy, but at the same time we do these to shed light on stories of people getting hired to hopefully turn down the volume of some of the doom and gloom you experience on LinkedIn and elsewhere. So thank you for coming, and we’ll talk to you later. We’ll see you somewhere on the internet

all right. Bye.

Outro: Thanks so much for listening to the Career Strategy Podcast. Now make sure to follow so you don’t miss an episode, and you can check out all of our episodes at careerstrategylab.com/podcasts now to learn more about how to apply UX and product strategy to advancing your career. Whether that means leveling up in your current role, getting a new role, getting freelance work, or just being ready for the unexpected, then I invite you to watch my free UX job search workshop at [00:20:00] careerstrategylab.com/hired And please feel free to send me a DM on LinkedIn. I would love to hear from you.

Post Roll: Hey there. Before I go, I wanna speak to you specifically if you’ve applied to 50, 100, 200 or more jobs and you haven’t secured an offer or interviews yet. First of all, I want you to know it’s not your fault. It is challenging out there and learning how to navigate the job, search, interviews, negotiation, et cetera.

It is not something that we are taught. Your boss is too busy to help you. Your friends just give you vague advice. Your family doesn’t really know how hiring in UX works. This is why I created my career strategy lab, UX job search accelerator. If you are tired of your DIY approach. Not leading to the results you want, then I challenge you to consider.

Maybe it is [00:21:00] time for a pivot, just like products pivot. Maybe your job search needs a pivot too. So head over to career strategy lab.com/apply to learn more or have a call with someone on my team or myself so we can answer all of your questions. Hope to talk to you soon.