From Recruiter to Product Designer: How Ellie’s taking control of her UX career

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General Intro

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Sarah Doody: I think it’s really valuable to hear, number one, from people at different stages in their career, but also at different stages of their experience with Career Strategy Lab.

And one thing you might be wondering is. How does career strategy work?

If everyone is following the same process, but one person has 10 years of experience and one person maybe has one year of experience or three or something like that. And one question we’re asked all the time is, how does this work if I, and then insert whatever unique thing might exist about you.

Like you have a lot of experience, you don’t have enough experience, you feel like there’s just all these unique things about you and you wonder how does this consistent process, really our sprint process that we teach in career strategy, lab work, if you. Insert the blank, [00:01:00] right? Insert the thing about you. So

Ellie Intro 2

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Sarah Doody: have Ellie, who’s in Seattle who drum roll is a former recruiter, guys.

And is switching into, has switched into UX and product design. So

General Q1

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Sarah Doody: I wanna give you a chance to tell us a little bit more about you, what you do where you’re at in your journey with Career Strategy Labs.

Ellie A1

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Ellie Tsuji: So I am Elliot I am currently a product designer with about a year and a half experience. I am actually a switcher. I went into product design after leaving my career as a technical recruiter, so not just recruiting, but a technical recruiter.

So I worked quite a bit with engineering, engineering leaders and such at a startup. And I definitely don’t regret it. This is the happiest career switch I’ve ever had, so this is great. I’m currently in the middle of my time at CSL and I am definitely loving it. I joined CSL because, well, for multiple reasons.

Yes, it was to help find a job, but for me, [00:02:00] I think it was more of. I was maybe lacking structure at the time, and I really wanted to get that control back. And so that has just definitely been one of the more rewarding parts of, of joining CSL amongst others. But that was my main motivation for joining CSL.

Sarah Doody: Yeah, and I, I love your perspective of a technical recruiter. I think there’s so many similarities to recruiting for UX and product roles that you probably see from your time as a technical recruiter. So I think you bring such a important and relevant lens to the, to this whole discussion.

Ellie Tsuji: you.

I appreciate And what.

Sarah Doody: What prompted you ever to, to make that switch, if you don’t mind me asking?

Ellie Tsuji: You know, I think being a technical recruiter, I was talking to just really creative people, one of the smartest people I’ve ever had the pleasure of talking to. And enough, I didn’t actually really recruit for UX designers.

I think I maybe [00:03:00] recruited for one, but I was talking to engineers and. Gosh, you know, sometimes their personalities would just flip and change when they started talking about projects that they’ve worked on. And I’m like, maybe, and I know it’s really sad to say, but maybe I never actually felt that way about recruiting and some people do.

But I was like, okay, I want that. And you know, I was just like, I want to be, I wanna channel that creativity in some ways. I wanna be that person who’s just passionate about talking about something that they’ve built. And so didn’t wanna lose my people skills at all either, because I take a lot of pride in that reading people.

so I thought UX design was just really a great way to, to go into that industry. And, and so far I’m loving it.

Sarah Doody: That’s amazing to hear. Yeah. Well, I can’t wait to hear the moment when, you know, you say that feeling that I felt from that person I was interviewing for that role. Like I feel it now about, about my own role.

General Q2

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Sarah Doody: I wanna switch gears a little bit and like [00:04:00] rewind time and think about like, what was the state of affairs when it came to your job search and, or, you know, your career in general before you join Career Strategy Lab? Because just kind of to clarify some people join Career Strategy Lab, like proactively because they’re in a job search and they need help right now.

And other people join, they’re, they’re happy in their job or they’re not actively looking for a job, but they join proactively to get stuff in order now so that if an opportunity came their way or if a layoff happened or something, they would be ready to go. So

Ellie A2

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Sarah Doody: Ellie, let’s hear more about your career situation. And I honestly can’t remember if you were already applying. Before you joined CSL. So fill us in, like what was your kind of before scenario?

Ellie Tsuji: Yeah. So my before [00:05:00] scenario was slightly different actually.

It was pretty different. You know, I was actually landing interviews, believe it or not. still to this day could not believe I was. But you know, sometimes they didn’t either work out or I wasn’t selected and that’s okay. But you know, I think once I started to realize like, okay.

The problem is me, and that was probably one of the hardest realizations to come to because I am a perfectionist, I am stubborn. I don’t have an ego, but I certainly like to do things with pride. I like to, you know, talk to, not talk to, but like I like to think of the five, you know, my five year future self congratulating me on, you know, hey, you got through the trenches and stuff, but you know, unfortunately.

Y’all. This was, these were deep trenches, you know? And so it was a really hard realization. But I was doing something wrong and I knew I needed help in getting that structure back. How do I appear more confident to the people who are on the [00:06:00] other side? I thought I could do it all, you know, with a new baby.

’cause I had just given birth at that time too. You know, a new baby, a new job, and then this whole new job market, which is absolutely crazy. And I realized I could not do it all on my own. So that’s why I came to CSL is because I am just more of a structured person, and I lacked structure at that time because there was just so much to do.

And. Believe it or not, I was actually sitting exactly where you all are at right now, like wondering, oh my God, how am I going to figure all of this out on my own? And so I’ll be honest, I was immediately sold on CSL because I thought did a great job. just hitting it close to home on the things that I wanted.

So I never really had any doubts about going into CSL. I think honestly, the harder sell was probably asking my husband, Hey, can we pay for this program? It was probably the more thing I was more nervous about. But at the same time, [00:07:00] you I already knew I wanted to join the program at that point. I was like, how can I, maybe I was looking for credibility, if you will. But I actually spoke with my mentor who was one of the UX designers, a director at Workday. And as soon as I said Sarah’s name, he was like, oh yeah, Sarah Judy, go there.

I would highly recommend you do it. And I’m like, really? And he had no context into what I was doing on and my interests at CSL. And so that was a big sell. But also I attended General Assembly, which Sarah, I know you’ve done work for as well. Yeah.

Sarah Doody: And

Ellie Tsuji: again, those were just all really credible things where I was like, okay, I think this person can really, you know.

Has really like, has the material that I need to structure my life and make sure that, not my life, but my job, what I want, how I’m going to search things. And I know right now I’m like in this complete tear down and rebuild stage, but I can tell you that I am [00:08:00] 500% more confident than when I first stepped out into the market.

Hmm. So that’s, that’s my experience. Did I answer all of that,

Sarah Doody: Sarah? No. That, that was such a beautiful picture you painted of, you know, where you were before. Right. And it’s, it’s great to hear, you know, you were getting, you were getting interviews, which is great, but you also knew, like, number one, it sounds like you had idea of what job you wanted, and maybe those interviews weren’t aligning with that job specifically.

And I think also recognizing like. You couldn’t do this on your own and you didn’t say it, but I’m going to guess that like one of the kind of thought exercises you did was, maybe I can do this on my own. But if I think of how long it would take me, like, is it maybe better to do something like this and shorten the timeframe?

So I don’t know if that came up, but I’m gonna guess maybe it did. ’cause we [00:09:00] hear that quite often also.

Ellie Tsuji: I definitely think that was, I think that was definitely part of it. But I think the other part I’d say like that was 75% of it, honestly. Mm-hmm. Okay. If I’m gonna just, if I’m gonna be successful, maybe signing up for this would get me there a lot faster.

That was right. Probably the biggest component. I think the other component, like the 25% of that is, let’s be real. We’re all human. We’ve all got pride. Like there’s always gonna be those days where like, now I don’t need it. I don’t need help. And even it gets the best of the best of us. And so I was like, gosh, I don’t, I want to prove to myself.

But then I just, you know, I had to remember like where, you know, how far did I get in life without any help, I would not have gone very far. And that was a realization again, where I was like, okay if I want the success, I’m going to need the help. And it was really just that other 25% where I was like, you need to get over your pride and go get the help that you need.

And like I said, I haven’t [00:10:00] regretted it since I signed up.

Sarah Doody: I can kind of reflect too, like I have not hired, I’ve not done a program like Career Strategy Lab in my career, but you know what, I did do multiple programs similar to career strategy Lab related to how to create kind of this group coaching program system.

And, and I myself joined other programs to help me like navigate, how do I set up the logistics of all of this and how do I do great marketing for it, et cetera. So it’s a very meta point I wanna make. But yeah, like I could have spent a lot of time figuring it out all on my own, but we might not be sitting here today if I tried to just keep hacking it together by myself.

Right. So there’s a lot of benefit in thinking about like that time element, like you said, Ellie.

Ellie Tsuji: hundred percent.

Sarah Doody: Yeah.

General Q3

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Sarah Doody: feel like we could keep talking for like three hours here. We don’t have three hours unfortunately. And we’ve, we’ve talked a lot about mindset and, and confidence and feel [00:11:00] free to, to add more points to that.

But our next kind of official question, maybe we can talk about like, thinking back to your initial maybe. Four, six weeks in career strategy lab. Like what are some examples of tangible things you did that you really in hindsight, feel like were very impactful or very memorable or, you know, helped you feel more confident?

I’m not sure what, but of just switching from like mindset stuff to more, you came into CSL, there’s these five sprints.

Ellie A3

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Sarah Doody: Ellie, how, how about you tell us more about your initial experience with the sprints and what stands out? I know you’ve been moving quite quickly, which is impressive with a baby. So, so tell us how it’s going and how you’re doing it.

Ellie Tsuji: You know, I think you get what you’ve put in.

And I think where I was, especially starting that first sprint you know, I was telling myself, [00:12:00] I am ready for a change. I am ready to see what I can do better and I am ready to just do something different. If you’re coming in thinking like, I am just going to use all the advice I got before and then use it in this program, and that’ll be fine.

Okay. You know, to each their own, that’s great and you’re more than welcome to do that. But who’s considering or is going to join CSL your very first sprint, I highly encourage you to just be open and when I say be open, try it for yourself before ruling it out. Because I can tell you like there were times where I’m like, okay, I’m not quite sure how this is going to work ’cause this is just not my style.

And today I am like, I’m gonna do. Every single time something like this happens. So like, the compass statement really sets up with the clarity going forward. that’s it felt after the Compass statement, I wasn’t just applying to jobs for the sake of applying to a job or for the sake of like, you know, I think everybody can maybe agree with me. But having that sense of urgency, like, you need [00:13:00] money, there are bills, you have a life to pay for.

Okay, yes, that’s, that’s there. But having that compass statement of just like, who are you and what do you want, and how do you want to grow? Really puts it in a different perspective when you’re in front of LinkedIn trying to figure out how to find your, your next design job. And I have to say, even after that, in going through the LinkedIn exercises, I now have more jobs on LinkedIn being recommended to me that I would actually apply for.

And I’m like, oh, okay. So I don’t feel like I have to apply to everything in the world just because it’s a job. And I’d say that one of the biggest things that I’ve learned, especially initially CSL, is that you need to do everything with intention, even when times are tough. You know, sometimes intention might take a little bit more time, but you’re gonna get better habits out of it.

You’re gonna become faster at it once you start, you know, practicing even things like [00:14:00] portfolio, do things with intention because it’s going to pay off in the end. I think too, like. Portfolios were really hard for me prior to coming, prior to coming to CSL, I think I can say that for a lot of people, but with Sarah’s process, it was like, just write it out.

Write it out. Don’t even get per, you know, don’t even aim for perfection. Which telling a designer that like, you’re just like, don’t do that. Like, what are you talking about? Like, I have to so letting go of that pressure of like, okay, let me just write it all out. Let me just reflect and. Break down decisions into these little micro decisions, I guess, really, really helped.

And even now when I’m doing work on my design side, I am like going onto my laptop writing these things down. I did this today. Why did I do that? Because of X, Y, and Z. How did I do that? I did it this way, you know, because I don’t wanna forget about those. But I think because I’ve learned a lot about portfolios with, [00:15:00] you know, Sarah’s program or with CSL, those are the habits that I wanted to form anyway.

So I feel not only more structured, but I can tell you I feel. Way more intentional with the things that I am doing you know, around my job search, around my portfolios and things like that. But also guys, what’s kind of cool is that you do things intentionally, even as when you’re not being a designer, when you’re being, you know, a mom or when you’re redesigning your house or things like that.

The, these are also habits that I picked up from CSL of doing things with intention, taking a step back, breaking it down into the micro problems really has helped me both on a professional and a personal level

Sarah Doody: so amazing to hear, Ellie, because I, I love that you tied it to personal, like the idea of the, the habit of intentionality.

And one thing I often say is, you know, the, the things you’re learning in Career Strategy Lab will also help you. [00:16:00] You said in your life, but I often say like once you are hired, because you will be a better communicator on your team, whether it’s on email or Slack or in presentations or so many of the skills are transferable and I’m, I’m really glad that you pointed out also the life connection there because it’s in the crazy fast world we live in.

It’s easy to not be intentional, right.

Ellie Tsuji: A hundred percent. And I think you’re spot on with the Slack messages and the emails and stuff like that. You know, I’ve been wanting to reach out to this a TS company because I used to be in HR and recruiting. I’m very passionate about it from a design perspective, maybe not from a recruiting standpoint as much, but you know, the immediate gut feeling that a lot of people are getting is like, just email them and hope something sticks.

Well, no, I’ve learned that intention is important and I haven’t sent that email yet because I’m like, I haven’t had the mental head space ’cause I’m so busy right now. But when I do, those are the things that I want to break down because I want [00:17:00] that email or that message to be impactful. Mm. And those are the things that really stand out to recruiters.

And from a recruiting standpoint, they definitely do some, a lot of times they are reading your stuff. It’s just the ones that have the impact and demonstrate the impact. Those are the ones that the recruiters will respond to.

Sarah Doody: Well, I can’t wait to hear what happens when you send that email, so keep me posted.

General Q4

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Sarah Doody: All right, our last question, I think we’ll have time for, I, I think it would be great if we could hear just one piece of advice or wisdom or parting words that you have for everyone on this call, and I will leave it super open-ended.

Ellie Tsuji: Um,

Well if you’re wondering, you know, if you should join CSL, I mean, obviously I’m gonna tell you just do it. also, you know, one, it’s absolutely okay if you have fears or hesitation address them. And then again, [00:18:00] break it down as to the why. But more importantly, you know, you, I think there’s gonna be a lot of self-reflection even in trying to join CSL. Take those opportunities because those are definitely muscles that you’re going to be stretching even more at CSL.

And you’re gonna find that, oh my gosh, these habits that I’ve had, maybe the bad habits or the habits I shouldn’t have had from the beginning are finally broken. just know that it’s not only a professional way of helping you and getting you out there, you’re also having this personal change, if you will.

And that is something I cannot put a price on, but for me specifically, just stop obsessing over having the perfect success story. Everyone needs help. And in times like this, it is absolutely okay to admit that you need help and take it from somebody like myself. I’m gonna openly say this, I made a mistake.

I made a mistake to not join sooner. I made a mistake admitting that I need help. [00:19:00] So if you’re wondering like, should I join? My answer was yes, because I came to a breaking point where I said I should have just gotten help earlier. So explore that, take that as you will. But more importantly, you’re working with really awesome people.

have a really great leader who’s leading the cohort, and you always feel supported in times like this. So, can’t stress that enough.

Sarah Doody: Thank you, Ellie.

Outro

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Sarah Doody: And you know, you, you also don’t just have the Career Strategy Lab team. You have our whole alumni community, which is 650 something or 70 something.

I don’t even know what. And so we, I didn’t set out to create a community, but I guess I am creating a UX community in addition to Career Strategy Lab because our alumni community is so powerful. And these relationships continue long after, long after people end their time in Career strategy lab. And some of them have started to hire each other, which is mind blowing to me.

thank you so much for spending your afternoon a little bit with us. We just wanna give you a [00:20:00] virtual high five. Thank you for this. all. Thanks for joining us. Have a good day and rest of your day, evening, morning, wherever you are in the world.

All right. Bye everyone. See you later.