How Erica Got Hired as a UX Officer at WK Kellogg Foundation After a CDC Layoff

Intro: [00:00:00] Hey, I’m Sarah Doody a user researcher and product designer with 20 years of experience. In 2017, I noticed something a little ironic. UX and product people, despite being great at designing experiences for other people, often struggle to design their own careers. That’s why I created Career Strategy Lab and this podcast to help you navigate your UX job search, grow in your current role, and avoid skill and salary plateaus all in a chill and BS free way.

So whether you’re. Stuck in your job search or wondering what’s next in your UX career. You are in the right place.

Open House Intro: Hey, this is Erin. I am one of the coaches inside of Career Strategy Lab, and I wanna let you know that this episode you’re about to listen to, number one, is awesome. And number two is actually from our open house. So in this conversation, you should know that there were other people on this call and there was a live audience.

So if some of the editing seems a little bit weird or abrupt, that’s why it should still make sense [00:01:00] for you. There’s so many gems of wisdom to grab from this episode, so we hope you enjoy, and if you do like this format where you really can get to know someone and learn more about their career journey, please let us know.

You can send Sarah a LinkedIn message, or you can email hello@sarahdoody.com We love the feedback and we wanna create more of what you enjoy and find helpful. All right, let’s get into the episode.

Sarah Doody: today we are going to hear from some. UX people who have, uh, navigated their job search or are in the middle of navigating their job search. And they’ve also been through my UX career coaching program called Career Strategy Lab.

So, I just wanna give our, uh, panelists, I guess we could say a chance to introduce themselves first.

Sarah Q1

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Sarah Doody: So we have Erica and really we just want to have you introduce yourselves share a little bit about what you’re doing right now, where you are in either your current job or your job [00:02:00] search.

And then we can get more into like. What were you doing before you joined Career Strategy Lab? What your experience was in the program and any other questions that we might get to see so, Erica, do you wanna kick us off?

Erica A1

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Erica Jiminez: Yeah, sure. Hi, currently I’m at the um, WK Kellogg Foundation. I’m their, uh, first user experience officer and I sit in their tech office kind of what I’m doing. I’ve been there two months, so I haven’t been that long. And uh, really. Yes, what you would expect user experience, programmatic, kind of like work on products and, and digital services and such, but also building a capacity for the organization to engage in UX methods and practices.

So that’s what I know so far. Two months in

Sarah Q1-A

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Sarah Doody: Erica, I was reading through some of your posts in the community earlier this morning. And one of the things that struck me, and I’m gonna pull it up so I don’t, don’t uh, mess it up, but you said something along the lines of how that [00:03:00] first sprint in career strategy lab about developing your career roadmap and that compass statement helped you realize, quote,

how random and unintentional I’d been about my career path. And I’m wondering if you can say a little bit more about that in, hindsight.

Erica A1-A

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Erica Jiminez: Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. And I’m sorry, I, I gave such a short blurb.

Sarah Doody: Oh no.

Erica Jiminez: I was coming from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. I’m sure everyone’s seen the news. So that was the state I was in when I joined, uh, CSLI maybe had a job, maybe didn’t. And so, , murky waters there. And so, the unintentionally. It’s, I think a lot of us, like I don’t consider myself a legit user experience, like person. It’s something I’ve kind of fell into. I was a social worker and a public health person and all of these things, and so I think that randomness that I quoted in in there is just, I had never, I just followed opportunity.

Opportunity, which I don’t think is wrong, but I think at this stage in my career, I’ve been doing, , user. Experience, service design. I’m more of a [00:04:00] researcher and strategist than anything else for almost 12 years now. And so now’s the time. It’s like, okay, let me sit down, think about where I’ve been, which is what the first module, which I absolutely love.

It’s super structured, but not overwhelming. ’cause I think some things, whether it’s into year planning or New Year’s resolution, like it’s too much. And this was very step by step. So where have you’ve been? What the meaning of it, and then also dreaming. That’s kind of what I took away from the first module.

So it got me out of this lack mindset and fear mindset into what do I want, and which was a huge shift for me.

Sarah Doody: And when you were laid off from the CDC, what was your, , beyond the frustration and everything that comes along with that, , you said , you’ve done a lot of things in your career and one thing I often hear from candidates is like, they feel like they’re. Their work experience just looks too messy on paper and that it won’t make sense [00:05:00] when they go to apply to the next job.

And I’m curious, did you also have that feeling looking back at your, , resume for the first time in a while?

Erica Jiminez: Well, so yes, kind of. But also I saw the string in the story, which I hadn’t seen before. And on my side, I hadn’t been really been laid off yet. It was like this threat of getting

laid off. So anyway, so I, I just wanna say that because I was like prepping, right?

And so, but it’s this, uh. Kind of, but I also have been a hiring manager a lot too.

So it was interesting applying that lens to myself, which

I’ve never done before. And like look at the story arc and it, it was absolutely messy, but it was absolutely interesting too and ’cause that’s the way I feel when I review resumes. I’m like, cool, like this non-linear path is actually much more interesting to me when I’m trying to hire people, frankly.

So.

Sarah Doody: Yeah, I, I find like it really is the superpower of so many people that work in user experience bringing that like. 360 or however many degree [00:06:00] perspective you wanna go with to what you do, because it just helps you attack problems and people and things from different angles than someone that’s just been, , doing the exact same thing for 10 years or something like

Erica Jiminez: Mm-hmm. And it’s interesting though, because I, uh, like when you look at job descriptions and all, , it, it does, it seems very like siloed. Oh, I, they need me to have been a fill in the blank product manager for 10 years, ? And I learned all these acronyms, which I know all of you. Probably already knew, but being in the government I did, you know, B2B, like blah, blah blah, like that was all new to me.

I was like, what? What are you guys saying? So it’s interesting. Then I saw those, that commentary in CSL too, like, oh, like I need to like clearly define this singular thing. But it depends, I think on your role too, like, I think breadth and to your point of like this mosaic of experiences actually makes whatever, at least from a research perspective, I think and strategy perspective, much more helpful.

So,

Sarah Doody: Yeah, I, I love the analogy of thinking about it as like a mosaic of [00:07:00] experience. I might need to borrow that term.

Erica Jiminez: Do it. Do it.

Sarah Q2

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Sarah Doody: I’m curious, , thinking back to your journey in career strategy lab, like one of the things that I notice in job seekers today is. If you imagine our Venn diagram about like the product of you and how we need to design ourselves market ourselves and sell ourselves. A lot of people just jump to the marketing part, which is like portfolio resume, LinkedIn, all this, and they skip over thinking about the design of them, which is all that work that we do regarding the roadmap and the compass and things.

So. But in hindsight, were you jumping to that resume portfolio work and had you even thought about things that we do in that career roadmap, part of Career Strategy Lab?

Erica A2

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Erica Jiminez: I wasn’t, but it was just because I was, uh, what’s the right word? Like, , I guess petrified of what was to come. So I hadn’t really,

I [00:08:00] was very, so I hadn’t gotten to the resume or any of that. So luckily, I feel like I entered the program at just the right time and the dreaming and, . Synthesis and thinking maybe it’s ’cause my researcher background. I love that part. And so I, to me that was everything. ‘ I didn’t have that pull of tactical or whatever. Kind of let me get to my portfolio, let me get to my resume. I was happy to avoid it, frankly. So anyways, and and I do, I think that that getting very clear was like. I don’t wanna be super woo woo, but like, the energy then you put out and, and the things you notice as you’re looking at jobs or opportunities as they arise or as you’re looking at things. That completely shifted my kind of like mindset. So, yeah,

Erica A2

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Sarah Doody: Yeah, I, I don’t think it’s woo woo at all. I think, , like with anything in life, without a filter for making decisions, without an idea or intention about where you wanna be, we just, we end up getting lost, right? And we end up solving surface level [00:09:00] problems instead of root problems making wrong decisions without the clarity from, that compass , and roadmap.

Maybe you would’ve said yes to that job that you pulled out of, right? But then what happens? You’re six weeks in and you’re regretting it, and then you’re faced with the decision of, do I quit after six weeks or do I stay for a year? Because supposedly somewhere someone decided that if you leave a job earlier than one year, it’s gonna look bad, right?

Erica A2-A

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Erica Jiminez: And can I just add to that? I

think what this program allows is like proactive like creation. Like you’re thinking about what you want, not evaluative what’s there, because I think that’s the natural, uh. , Pickle to get yourself in. It’s like, oh, this is here, this is here. Can I cram myself into this?

Can I build versus wait, what do I want outside of what’s even listed here? ? So,

Sarah Doody: Yeah. And I think, , we’ve heard there are times in our life when we just need to make money, obviously. Right. And if you do find your. Self in a position where you don’t have this pressure. [00:10:00] It is so valuable to take a step back and, and do exactly what you said. Like think about what do I want before trying to like manipulate yourself into a role.

And Erica, I remember you mentioned Gumby. Could you talk more about Gumby in terms

Erica Jiminez: yeah.

Yeah. It’s, yeah, and it’s exactly that. Like, I mean, ’cause I was thinking about it. If I lose my job, okay, cool, I’ll be a dog sitter. Like, it wasn’t even in the UX space frankly. And so, yeah, it is just everything I was reading and stuff, I just, ooh, was like soul crushing, ? I was saying jobs on LinkedIn.

I was like, no, I don’t want to. But same thing, I was like, I need to earn money by X date. And so. Thinking about how I could reframe my experiences regardless of if I was interested or not, so that I could get that job. , It’s very much this like pick me mentality and I tell my friends that are currently like unemployed or whatever, right now it’s like, yeah, it’s almost like dating.

You just need to find one and like if somebody, if that job doesn’t pick you, guess what? It’s not the right fit anyways. ’cause they would realize like, , it’s a good fit like the two of you together. So.

Sarah Doody: [00:11:00] It is not a numbers game, and it gets a lot easier when you get clarity about what you want, right? The, the dating analogy is so perfect.

Erica Jiminez: Don’t.

Sarah Doody: Yeah, but like, , you think of the time that people spend on dating apps, just swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe. If they were intentional about what they wanted, they might realize, oh, I want someone who’s like into, I don’t know, hiking or something.

So instead of. Like going to the ocean of dating apps. They like go join a hiking group. that’s probably a more intentional than just the mass apply approach to the job search.

Sarah Q3

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Sarah Doody: I wanna shift gears a little bit. I feel like we could talk about this first sprint and career strategy lab for two hours, but unfortunately we don’t have that kind of time.

But I wanna move a little bit more into how you found. The job that, uh, you applied to

Erica A3

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Sarah Doody: Erica, in your post [00:12:00] where you told everyone that you got hired, you gave three lessons learned.

I’ll summarize them, but. Maybe we can discuss each one of them really quickly. So number one, you said follow what you’re passionate about can you share a little bit more about that?

Erica Jiminez: Oh yeah. Yeah. Just coming. I’m like, I was in the public sector, so mission really, matters to me. And I was like, I’m not gonna find another gig where I get to do like user experience and like. Build a program, a UX program in a mission driven org and poof, like, yes, I was able, like I found that.

That’s amazing. So it was just that, and, and to your point, like, yes, I get it. I, I was planning on, , whatever I needed to make the money, but not to, , take a job that wasn’t a good fit.

Sarah Doody: Right. You also said another thing you said, go for it even if you’re not ready.

Erica Jiminez: Uh huh.

Okay, so

Sarah Doody: what that was about?

Erica Jiminez: I do.

So, what I meant was so a recruiter reached out to me as well, and that’s how I found this position. And I wasn’t ready, my resume wasn’t done.

I had like [00:13:00] a rough draft and I didn’t have a portfolio completed. I had a mural board that I’ve been getting together in preparation for the portfolio module to get it all. So I just, instead of, oh, I can or whatever, I quickly, , spruced up my resume with what I had already learned in CSL. Same thing. I Presented the portfolio using a whiteboard instead of something else. So.

Sarah Doody: Well, I, I, I, I think that’s an important point because you are not the first person to say that. We have had so many people say, and obviously I’m paraphrasing. Is saying like, once I updated my LinkedIn, people started to contact me and then I had the problem of my portfolio isn’t ready. And so multiple people have said similar to you, I just had stuff in Mural or Figma or Miro or whatever people use.

And I just decided I’m just gonna show this, , not ready yet type thing. But uh, see what happens. And I think it’s really a testament to the power of. The [00:14:00] storytelling part of how we approach case studies in Career Strategy lab, because I think once you dial in that story, that is what people wanna hear, right?

it is about the final, , version of your portfolio. And you can still get hired with this in progress version, as you said.

Erica Jiminez: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. ’cause the role again, I’m not a visual designer, so it wasn’t this,

let me see your product. It’s, let me see how you think and how you approach like projects and challenges really. So.

Sarah Doody: Yeah. And, and one thing we find is that because so many people approach their portfolios from kind of just a, a deliverable, uh, mindset, like, let me just show you what you did versus what you said. Let me show you how I think they really struggle in interviews. And so I think because you took the time to think about.

What you did, why you did it, et cetera. You were able to give the hiring managers what they wanted, which is how do you think? Right. The last thing that I wanna [00:15:00] mention from your little post was you said, know your worth and advocate for yourself. The worst they can say is no. Is there a story behind that

Erica Jiminez: Yeah, of course. Yeah, there definitely is. It was about salary

Sarah Doody: okay.

Erica Jiminez: uh, well it long they came in under what I had initially asked. It wasn’t by a lot, but I just, uh. I was disappointed and given that this was like an inaugural UX role on building things like the ask of what, and I knew it was gonna be a complex organization, like, ’cause it’s relatively , design and mature. I was like, okay. So I, yeah, I advocated for the salary I had asked for and it ended up working out. I was terrified. It’s not like I was like, oh, . This is gonna work. I think a, a less confident version of myself would’ve just taken what was given as opposed to asking for. ’cause again, like all they can say is no. And then it’s up to me like, do I still want it or not? Like, I mean, so.

Sarah Doody: Yeah. I just ran some numbers within the past four weeks and from the [00:16:00] people who get hired in Career Strategy Lab and who try to negotiate 67% are able to successfully negotiate a higher. Salary or compensation package. So to your point, if you don’t attempt, you might be missing out. And years ago, probably, I don’t know, 15 or 18 years ago, I read some like finance article or some news clip from someone.

It was probably Susie Orman. ’cause she was big at the time. If you remember her.

Erica Jiminez: I do.

Sarah Doody: But she said essentially like, I forget the dollar amount, but she said this is a dollar amount that specifically women miss out on in their career by not negotiating. If you compound, the potential salary increases over your career, and I’m pretty sure it was like over a million dollars when you factor in compound interest in things.

But I’ll never forget that, which is why I am such a stickler for this, , negotiate and know your worth.

Erica Jiminez: And if you’ve done the research kind of market research, which I had informally by looking through LinkedIn and all that, like I knew it wasn’t like [00:17:00] a crazy ask, ?

And so like no one else is gonna advocate for you, so you gotta advocate for yourself. So, yeah.

Sarah Doody: and we, we can’t know that every company does this, but I think it’s a pretty safe assumption that when they give you an offer, it’s not. The highest possible offer, right? So there’s probably room to negotiate, but you have to negotiate to find out if that is their top number.

Erica Jiminez: Mm-hmm.

Sarah Q4

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Sarah Doody: All right here.

I’m curious, thinking about like, now that you’re out of career Strategy Lab, thinking back, is there anything that stands out to you in terms of how. It impacted you as a professional or a human that we have not covered yet.

Erica A4

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Erica Jiminez: Oh yeah, yeah. Similarly I think the thing that’s coming to mind when you asked that question was I forget what it is, but whoever your heroes are, like the three or four, like, okay. Yeah. That really just, whoa was like a, whoa, mind blowing. ’cause I didn’t put any parameters on it.

Only one person was in the design [00:18:00] space. Frankly, it just really opened up like, whoa, this is kind of what I. The skills or the, the topics that matter to me. And so my aha was like, animal welfare is like super important to me and I wanna marry those. So it actually gave me a roadmap. Like I, I’m happy where I’m at now, but like I kind of know what I want my next thing to be in the space

I actually. Had to put my what money where my mouth is, I guess. And I, I had been volunteering at the local animal shelter, but it was just like direct animal care. But I started, I was like, why am I not helping them do like data analysis to improve the visitor experience? And I started doing that and so I know, and you, it’s like, duh, why didn’t you think that before?

But I didn’t until it was down on paper.

Sarah Doody: Yeah. I, I love that because. many people get tied up in thinking that UX and service design and product design is just, , big tech, whatever. And I just think if you draw a 20 mile radius around your home, there are so many people that need your knowledge, services, expertise, et [00:19:00] cetera, whether it is for a job, for freelance opportunities to volunteer your skills, like you said.

And I think like. It’s kind of just eye-opening when you think the animal shelter, whatever, whatever it’s called, like could use your services to help, like improve the user flow of adoption or

Erica Jiminez: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sarah Q5

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Erica Jiminez: Yep.

Sarah Doody: Yeah. So, all right, my last question, is, if anyone listening to this is thinking about joining Career Strategy Lab and they’re on the fence what would you tell them?

Erica Jiminez: No, and you couldn’t have planned this better. ‘ In my defense, I was working and I have two young kids, and I’m more of an introvert, so I’m more kind of like, let me take in the information and like think about it and work on it separately.

And so I just think it’s whatever you wanna put into it and whatever time you want. There’s some things I skipped but I was like, oh, I don’t need to work on that. Like, I don’t have time right now, but I’m gonna save it and if I need to, I’ll work on that later. So I think, being very clear, like if you [00:20:00] need structure and kind of guidance. That’s what exactly what I got out of it, I think, and that, that met my, my needs and, and purpose. And yeah, I met, I met people and all that, but I, I wasn’t, I as engaged and I, I hate LinkedIn, I’m not gonna lie. So I’m not active on LinkedIn, but I do have a network and people did reach out.

I reached out to a few people and so a small group of folks I’ve kept in touch with and that’s very nice, like on human level. So. I think if you’re on the fence yeah, listen to maybe some of your podcasts. ’cause I had been lurking for, I wanna say a year or two, Sarah. And I just know, and I just like the way you think and I like how you’re organized and structured and like, so yeah.

So that’s my advice. Yeah.

Sarah Doody: Yeah. And I think the, this, this notion of like, I don’t have enough experience because I just came from a bootcamp. I don’t have the right experience. And other kind of fears around that level of experience you have. What we find is that. The problem is not with the [00:21:00] experience you have, it’s how you are communicating that experience.

And what we find is a lot of people are selling themselves short in their resume, in their portfolio, et cetera. And so you assign blame to the fact that, well, I’m not gonna get hired ’cause I don’t have any experience ’cause I’m from the bootcamp. That’s not true. It’s how you frame the experience you do have and.

How you create a portfolio to get hired is frankly different than how they teach you. If they teach you to make a portfolio in a bootcamp, and I know this because I’ve been doing this since 2017, and I’ve seen a lot of the portfolios that come outta bootcamps and they don’t. Have that user, the recruiter hiring manager in mind.

So, it’s really a positioning problem, not with your experience. Yeah. [00:22:00] Erica, , you hire, do you have any comments about that?

Erica Jiminez: Yeah. Well, and it’s funny, we’re probably gonna hire some contract support, so, which I will post in CSL. Uh, yeah, no, I completely agree. ’cause I think. Uh, this might be unpopular to say, but I’m gonna say it anyways.

There’s lots of candidates that have the skill sets that you need.

Really, from my perspective, what I’m looking for is this somebody I wanna work with. So it’s really the human part. Like the human part really, really matters. ’cause if you have like multiple qualified candidates and a lot of people are qualified, it’s like, cool, well who are you as a human? So just, that’s all.

Just don’t be as scared to be you and share like who you are. I think during interviewing and everything, because I think that really resonates.

Authenticity does so, yeah.

Sarah Doody: Yeah. It’s about connection too, right?

Erica Jiminez: Mm-hmm. It is.

Conclusion

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Sarah Doody: All right. With that said, Erica, thank you so much.

I know hearing from people who, , have been in the shoes of someone in their job search, someone. Laid off, et cetera is so valuable. So thank [00:23:00] you for being vulnerable and sharing about your experience so honestly and being so encouraging too. I think it’s just really valuable

Alright, bye everyone. Thanks.

Outro: Thanks so much for listening to the Career Strategy Podcast. Now make sure to follow so you don’t miss an episode, and you can check out all of our episodes at careerstrategylab.com/podcasts now to learn more about how to apply UX and product strategy to advancing your career. Whether that means leveling up in your current role, getting a new role, getting freelance work, or just being ready for the unexpected, then I invite you to watch my free UX job search workshop at careerstrategylab.com/hired And please feel free to send me a DM on LinkedIn. I would love to hear from you.

Post Roll: Hey there. Before I go, I wanna speak to you specifically if you’ve applied to 50, 100, 200 or more jobs and you haven’t secured an offer [00:24:00] or interviews yet. First of all, I want you to know it’s not your fault. It is challenging out there and learning how to navigate the job, search, interviews, negotiation, et cetera.

It is not something that we are taught. Your boss is too busy to help you. Your friends just give you vague advice. Your family doesn’t really know how hiring in UX works. This is why I created my career strategy lab, UX job search accelerator. If you are tired of your DIY approach. Not leading to the results you want, then I challenge you to consider.

Maybe it is time for a pivot, just like products pivot. Maybe your job search needs a pivot too. So head over to careerstrategylab.com/apply to learn more or have a call with someone on my team or myself so we can answer all of your [00:25:00] questions. Hope to talk to you soon.