How a 30 year UX veteran went from feeling irrelevant to in control of her career

Nancy [00:00:00]: I don’t have a gig right now. And yet, and yet I still feel spacious. Like peace, serenity and like going from jaded and tired to the friendliness has come back. And the only way I can describe it is CSL helped me feel more fully me.

Sarah Doody [00:00:20]: Hey, I’m Sarah Doody, a user, researcher and product designer with 20 years of experience. In 2017, I noticed something a little ironic. UX and product people, despite despite being great at designing experiences for other people.

Erin [00:00:34]: Often struggle to design their own careers.

Sarah Doody [00:00:37]: That’s why I created Career Strategy Lab and this podcast to help you navigate your UX job search, grow in your current role, and avoid skill and salary plateaus, all in a chill and BS free way. So whether you’re stuck in your job search or wondering what’s next in your UX career, you’re in the right place.

Erin [00:00:58]: Hey, this is Erin. I am one of the coaches inside of Career Strategy Lab and I want to let you know that this episode you’re about to listen to, number one is awesome and number two is actually from our open house. So in this conversation you should know that there were other people on this call and there was a live audience. So if some of the editing seems a little bit weird or abrupt, that’s why it should still make sense for you. There’s so many gems of wisdom to grab from this episode, so. So we hope you enjoy and if you do like this format where you really can get to know someone and learn more about their career journey, please let us know. You can send Sarah a LinkedIn message or you can email hello, sarahdoody.com we love the feedback and we want to create more of what you enjoy and find helpful. All right, let’s get into the episode.

Sarah Doody [00:01:42]: We’re going to be talking to Nancy, so I think the first thing that we should do is introduce yourself to tell us a little bit about what you’re doing right now and a little bit about what you do within user experience. Like, are you more research? Are you more design systems content? And then let’s add a new question that we thought of this morning. Why did you decide to get into user experience? And maybe why have you stayed in user experience? But let’s go to Nancy.

Nancy [00:02:11]: Hey, Sarah, happy to be here. Like really happy to be here, everybody. So, Yeah, I also. 30 years. 30. Like, that’s a crazy number. So everything, nearly every project in my past is zero to one because there was zero of zero. We were transforming from command line interfaces to graphical interfaces.

Nancy [00:02:36]: So everything was about the GUI which is fun to say. I wish we still said that, but gui. Gui. Anyway, ironically I cut my teeth into the world of UI and UX via iconography, actually. So I was part of a small team developing some of the world’s first iconography specifically for mechanical engineering 3D modeling applications. And so that was really interesting in terms of it really brought art and engineering and cognitive psychology. How do people decode symbols, understand where they’re going? Wayfinding and navigation. So yeah, and I joined CSL because of fast forward 30 years.

Nancy [00:03:24]: I had started to really feel irrelevant. I just did. I felt irrelevant, kind of overlooked, discarded, maybe aged out. And I hope we’ll talk more about, I think we’ll talk more about mindset shifts. I started to see myself as valuable, knowledgeable and turned like aged into pioneer. And that has made me really happy because I think we’re at a moment where we need pioneers. Right? It’s that time again where we’re on the cusp of the unknown and building the emerging future. So.

Erin [00:03:57]: No, that’s great. And I think, I think your perception of like on this cusp and needing pioneers, it’s such a great observation because you know, you can learn software, you can memorize processes and methods and things like that, but there’s also such immense value in the 20, 25, 30, 15 years of experience someone may have that just. It’s like a muscle, right? Like it can’t happen in two weeks or something. And so I think there’s a lot of importance around encouraging people to stay in user experience when so often I log on to LinkedIn and see people teaching people how to get out of user experience. So it’s an interesting time for sure. I want to shift a little bit more to the topics of kind of like confidence and mindset because I know if you put yourselves in the shoes before you join Career Strategy Lab to think about what you were doing, how your approach to your job search was, or if you had even started your job search and just give us a sense of what was life like before you joined Career Strategy Lab. And maybe you know what that shift was like once you got into Career Strategy Lab and started, you know, doing the work and working on your compass and your resume and all other things.

Nancy [00:05:29]: Well, let’s see. I mean, pre csl, I, you know, I was alone that, you know, there you go, just alone trying to do the thing. I had come really close and silver medaled at three separate job opportunities that, you know, I felt like, oh, perfect fit, life changing dream jobs. And then A couple of contracts. Also the silver medal. I mean, like, okay, I’m happy to be at the podium, I guess, but I started to look at my materials and I, I just really felt like that what I had was a bunch of independent boxes of content that didn’t really line up to tell a complete story. And I really struggled with joining or not. I mean, I was at a pretty, like, I will not sugarcoat it, people.

Nancy [00:06:22]: I was at a pretty low spot, all of it, emotionally, financially, like, it was a big decision. You know, I may have had a migraine for three days trying to work it out, but once I made the decided, like, I’m going to make the investment because I’ll probably just end up wasting more time anyway, or time and money. And I’m going to do this and I’m going to embrace it. And part of my resistance, I know, is that, you know, I have a background in both like computer science and pure art. And the artist side of me is like, I have a big mistrust of programs. Like, you know, don’t box me in. I can’t breathe. I’m gonna become a, you know, piece of play doh.

Nancy [00:07:10]: That’s shoved through an extruder and we all come out the same shape, you know, and then we’re just like lemmings and. But this program wasn’t. It’s just not like that at all. In the end, like, the biggest shift is that I already mentioned, you know, I just really felt like I was irrelevant, that, that I had just become irrelevant. And when I stepped into yes and the new view of myself, I just, I felt such a spaciousness. Like everything just opened. I felt really. And I still do now.

Nancy [00:07:46]: And I, I, I don’t have a gig right now. And yet, and yet I still feel spacious. Like peace, serenity. And like going from jaded and tired to the friendliness has come back. And the only way I can describe it is CSL helped me feel more fully me. And that made all the difference in terms of embracing what I needed to do and how I was going to do it. And, and I could feel like, you know what? I’m not in like a constricted container. I’m now in service of trying to help the specific people that need me.

Nancy [00:08:30]: Because now I feel like I’ve got stuff to give again. Right? I’m needed. But you see it all out there all the time. Like, good Christ, those people need me, but how do they find me? And so that was like a hundred that when that light went off and I don’t remember how many weeks into the program exactly it was, but that was the, the beginning of, of the beginning for me to help the people that need me find me. And that was my shift. And that changed my relationship with, you know, being excited about creating content and finding the different ways to tell my. Tell a story. You know, when you’ve got 30 years of simple chapters, it’s freaking hard to choose, but so now it’s just fun.

Erin [00:09:19]: Yeah, I, I was, I’m glad you brought up the 30 years because I was going to say, you know, the many people often believe the more experience you have, it’s just going to be so easy and it’s not right. It’s a blessing and a curse. You have so much experience that it’s hard to package that. And also maybe you have a lot of experience that you mentioned jaded, you know, like you just have more years of potential for being jaded and things like that. And once you hone in on like what you want to do in the future, that helps you become more, more excited. I think as, as you just described. But definitely doesn’t get easier the more numbers of years experience you have. But it really, I think it goes into the topic of really stepping into kind of owning your career, as you kind of alluded to, Nancy, and not just letting it happen to you.

Nancy [00:10:15]: Yeah, I, yeah, I definitely would agree with that, you know, because I was in a place at a time, right, where we were zero and we were going to one and it was a little bit of the Wild west. And yeah, a lot of the time we were. I don’t know, I don’t want to denigrate it, but making it up as we went along. Right. There weren’t any patterns to follow and of course you wanted to be smart and thoughtful about it, but. Yeah, so serendipity is where I wanted to get to like early on in my career played a large part. Right. It just did.

Nancy [00:10:49]: Things came to you and you do one thing, somebody else would hear about it and you kind of just kept stepping on a pebble and going to the next to the next. But I think as Chris said, you know, the landscape, landscape is just so different now. It’s just, it’s very different now. And, and so yeah, okay, we just kind of embrace the now and yeah.

Erin [00:11:11]: No, it, it’s great. And I think many people need to hear what you said around, you know, you have this 30 years of experience and it’s taken you time to figure out what’s, what’s Next in your career roadmap. All right, we may get back to the compass statement here. The. The next question. Question I’m curious about is, you know, thinking back to everything you did in Career Strategy Lab, because, you know, if. If you’re new to hearing about Career Strategy Lab, really, we’ve sprintified everything related to the job search. So you’re all familiar with.

Erin [00:11:45]: With sprints. And so we have, you know, a resume sprint and a LinkedIn sprint and a compass statement Sprint portfolio, obviously. And I’m curious, maybe you cannot identify only one, but was there a certain sprint that really stood out to you in your experience, Nancy, Any sprint stand out to you? It’s okay if there’s multiple, but maybe let’s keep it to two.

Nancy [00:12:11]: No, I actually, it’s part of the program that stood out to me, and it’s not necessarily in the sprint. Right. But it’s like, if we can just talk about the weekly calls for a minute. Right. So there’s. For everyone on the meeting here, there’s a cadence of two separate calls a week, and one is for critiques, and the other is a mindset call. And, like, showing up to those every week was really kind of the touchstone for me. And I just need to talk about the coaches for a second.

Nancy [00:12:45]: Can we just give a shout out? Because the coaches that you have on your team, Sarah, are just like third eye creatures. They all got, like a third eye right here. Truly insightful, truly generous, so well spoken and articulate. Like, it is absolutely amazing at the lightning speed that they can dig into your confusion, understand what it is, and come back with a really beautiful answer. I feel like they’re detanglers and demystifiers that really help you navigate yourself while you’re navigating your content using the materials. And, Sarah, that, you know, you show up like you’re there, you’re there on the critiques, like, this isn’t a course. That’s just, you know, like, I made some content and then, bye, sign up, I’m gone. You’re there, and you’re.

Nancy [00:13:40]: And there’s so many teachable moments where watching the critiques, like, even if it’s not your piece of content, right. There’s always a moment that you can take away to apply to yourself. So as you’re working on your own stuff, that was truly inspirational. And I think that all y’ all were there on the discussion boards too, right? You’re. Yeah, that was. That was not insignificant. That was no small thing.

Erin [00:14:04]: Well, thank you for giving a shout out to the coaches. Because, yes, Career Strategy Lab is not just me. I absolutely could not do it without our team of three coaches. But, yes, you did such a great job at just articulating how amazing they are on the calls and in the community, for sure.

Nancy [00:14:23]: Yeah. And I think there’s something special about that in this program that, you know, it creates a nice, friendly container and safe and, you know, when people get wins. Like, I love the whole section, like, there’s a whole section on the discussion board about wins and you’re all in it for everyone who wins or gets hired or whether it’s small or big. And there’s zero sense of like, oh, you know, bringing it back to yourself. Like, oh, why not me? Or what’s my time? Or what’s wrong? Like, none of that. You just truly happy. So I’m not exactly sure how that all happened, but it really is buoying. It’s a buoying experience.

Nancy [00:15:02]: You know, you’re lifted by all the winds. Like, it was just. Yeah, that felt. That felt great. And it gives you air.

Erin [00:15:12]: I. I love that you use the word air because I was literally just going to say, I think, you know, I haven’t done a formal study on our community inside Queer Strategy Lab, but just anecdotally, I think it is a breath of fresh air in the UX community because unfortunately, there is such negativity and just, like, lamenting and like, complaining and just bad vibes on LinkedIn oftentimes. And I can now recall sometimes when people have, you know, in surveys and stuff said that they liked our community because it wasn’t kind of like this cesspool of like, complaining and stuff, you know, like, sure. Is it frustrating? Do you get upset? Do you get down? Yeah. But, like, let’s not dwell on that stuff. Right? So I’m glad you called that out. Okay, one last question, because I. I love this question.

Erin [00:16:10]: I think the last one should be, what is one tip you would give someone who decides that they’re going to do Career Strategy Lab? Like, is there. Is there one one thing? It could be super actionable. It could be some, like, mindset thing. Whatever you want.

Nancy [00:16:26]: Just one. If you decided to step into. Yes, embrace it and show up. I mean, just show up. Show up at the calls. You don’t have to be on video. You can lurk or not lurk, but you can hang out and relax. You know, show up at the peer review areas, like, take time to check out, taking up a little space, which is, you know, something that the coaches invite us to do and.

Nancy [00:16:57]: Yeah, and experiment. I think be willing to experiment with.

Erin [00:17:03]: Your content just like we do with products. Right? We’re always experimenting.

Nancy [00:17:08]: Yeah. Lo fi man. Go lo fi. Like don’t be. Vision exceeds grasp. Yeah.

Erin [00:17:15]: All right, so that is all the.

Sarah Doody [00:17:17]: Time we have time for.

Erin [00:17:18]: But this is my moment to thank Nancy for your time for for sharing.

Sarah Doody [00:17:24]: So openly about everything.

Erin [00:17:27]: All right, bye everyone. Have a great rest of your day.

Sarah Doody [00:17:30]: Thank you. Thanks so much for listening to the Career Strategy podcast now. Make sure to follow so you don’t miss an episode and you can check out all of our episodes@careerstrategylab.com podcasts now to learn more about how to apply UX and product strategies to advancing your career. Whether that means leveling up in your current role, getting a new role, getting freelance work, or just being ready for the unexpected, then I invite you to watch my free UX job search workshop@careerstrategylab.com Hired. And please feel free to send me a DM on LinkedIn. I would love to hear from you. Hey there. Before I go, I want to speak to you specifically.

Sarah Doody [00:18:16]: If you’ve applied to 50, 100, 200 or more jobs and you haven’t secured an offer or interviews yet, first of all, I want you to know it’s not your fault. It is challenging out there and learning how to navigate the job search, interviews, negotiation, et cetera. It is not something that we are taught. Your boss is too busy to help you, your friends just give you vague advice. Your family doesn’t really know how hiring in UX works. This is why I created my Career Strategy Lab UX Job Search Accelerator. If you are tired of your DIY approach not leading to the results you want, then I challenge you to consider. Maybe it is time for a pivot.

Sarah Doody [00:19:07]: Just like products pivot, maybe your job search needs a pivot too. So head over to careerstrategylab. Com, apply to learn more, or have a call with someone on my team or myself so we can answer all of your questions. Hope to talk to you soon.