Finding and Owning Your UX Voice: How Melp Did With Career Strategy Lab

Sarah Doody: [00:00:00] welcome. Happy Wednesday. Wherever you are joining us from in the world, um, we’re really excited you’re here.

I am Sarah Doody and I have Becca from my team with me in the wonderful orange. And Becca will be, um, chiming in in the chat for questions ’cause I only have one side of eyes, so Becca may be jumping in to answer questions. So just so you know, Becca is an official, um, team member of mine and you’re here today ’cause you are SVP for our UX job search q and a with three people, um, at various stages of their job search.

Um, we have someone that was recently hired, someone that is currently. Interviewing through multiple rounds and I will let him share that company if he wants to. Um, and then someone else who is in the [00:01:00] middle of getting all their stuff together and ready so that they can be applying soon. But honestly, they might already be applying.

Also, some of you know this, some of you don’t, depending on when you are SV ped for this, uh, q and a. But, um, we will give you the opportunity to actually join our UX job search program.

We’re gonna deal with that at the very end. Um, but if you need to leave early, rest assured we will give you that link and all the details in the follow up email with this recording. I know some of you had emailed us in advance and wanted to know like, how do you join, et cetera. So we’re gonna do the q and a first and then we’ll go into that.

I’m gonna give you a tour, show you our new AI tool, this new freelancing ux freelancing course, um, that we’re. Essentially giving away right now, um, and a ton more.

Sarah Q1

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Sarah Doody: And [00:02:00] really the goal for today is to really paint the picture for all of you of where each of these people was in their career journey, whether it was a couple months ago, a couple years ago, um, what they were struggling with, what was working, not working, what happened when they joined, uh, my program, career strategy lab and, and sought help with their job search.

And then how that kind of has impacted their confidence in their portfolio, resume, et cetera, in their ability to, in some cases, get interviews in their ability in, in, in other cases to get job offers. So first up, we have Melp and Melp. Feel free to unmute yourself and, or well definitely unmute and then come off video if you can.

Hey. Hi. There we go. Thanks for having me. Yeah, and Melba is a, is a product manager, um, with six [00:03:00] years of experience in UX research and software development and Melp. To start us off, why don’t you just share a little bit about, um, your career journey and situation. Let’s say before you. Heard about and joined Career Strategy Lab, like, just paint that picture for us so everyone knows kind of where you came from.

Melp A1

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Melp M: Yeah, sure. So, um, I don’t remember when I found out about CSL. It must have been so many years ago. Um, and I just remember, I think I, you know, followed Sarah on LinkedIn and stuff, and I just remember, uh, seeing, uh, you know, I was laid off from my last job in about 2022 and like a bunch of the mass layoffs started happening.

And I just remember Sarah kept saying like, you don’t need a master’s degree or you don’t need more education to get hired, you just need to communicate it better. And then I just remember thinking like, okay, keeping that in mind, I think I still wanna get my master’s. Um, and so I went and got my [00:04:00] master’s in ux.

Um, and throughout that journey I realized I wanted to go into product management ’cause I care about business too. Um, but yeah, I’m out the other side and just even worse, I can’t find a job. Like, it’s even harder than before I started my master’s. And that’s just like a big shock to me. Um, and so I decided to join CSL because I, you know, I, at first I joined because I just like, I was like, okay, I want a job right now.

But I think a lot of people’s experiences, once you join CSL, it’s not just about getting a job right now, it’s about finding the right job.

Sarah Doody: Hmm. I, I wanna emphasize that point you just made, like, not about getting the, the job right now, but getting a job that is right for you. And I’m, I’m curious, like what does right for you mean?

Melp M: Um, so I think I’m still figuring that out. Um, I know I already did [00:05:00] the, uh. Like the career compass sprint and stuff. But for me, you know, like, like just recently before I joined CSL, I was just applying to everything. I was like, I don’t wanna be a product designer, but if I get that job, sure I’ll take it.

And then now I’m more like, why would I take a job that doesn’t like, put me on the path to like where I wanna be in the future? So I think there was like that kind of mindset shift. Um, I think I’m still figuring out like exactly what that looks like. Um, yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Doody: And I’m curious, you said you decided to go get a master’s degree.

Where did you, where did you study? I forget.

Melp M: Oh, so, um, I just graduated from the University of Michigan at the School of Information with a degree in, um, UX Research and Design. And it was, it was weird because I already had like four years of experience in UX and then coming back to school I actually didn’t learn that much.[00:06:00]

Um, so, but I took a lot of electives in, uh, business and entrepreneurship and that’s where I really learned the most. And so when did you graduate? I just graduated this past May. Okay. And just been job searching, nothing working. And so I was like, I think I knew it would be really difficult because for the whole, for the past year, um, I’ve been job searching, applying to hundreds of jobs, getting nothing.

Um, and so I was like, okay, I’m gonna try a different strategy. Um, and so that’s when I joined CSL.

Sarah Doody: Yeah. And, um, you know, one of the things, um, just for, for everyone to hear who’s not aware, like one of the first things that um, we do in Career Strategy lab is kind of have you do a research project on yourself essentially.

So you can do a lot of what Mel just mentioned, which is really hone in on [00:07:00] where are you right now. Where do you wanna be in the future? And of course, the future might change, but similar to a product like your career needs a roadmap too. And so, uh, MELP, based on that first sprint, for everyone that’s not familiar, we organize everything you do in, in career strategy lab into sprints.

And so in that first sprint, um, like is there anything that stands out to you in terms of helping you hone in on some clarity around, um, where you wanna be?

Melp M: Um, so I think, uh. Yes and no. So I think there’s still some things that I just, I don’t know for sure just because I haven’t experienced it yet. Uh, for example, like people are like, oh, do you wanna work in a big company or a small company, or like, what industry?

I think I’m just very open to a lot of things because I just don’t know a hundred percent. Yep. Um, but I at least know myself pretty well, especially after, [00:08:00] um, that first sprint. Uh, so like for, for people who aren’t super familiar, the first sprint, we just do a deep dive into like ourselves, like what kind of projects do we really enjoy working on?

What do we not really enjoy working on? Um, and we just do this so that we can understand ourselves better, like to help inform what kind of companies you’d wanna work at and which kind of environments you would thrive in. And so, um, I used to be, you know, after getting like rejected so much after being fired and being laid off, I just had like a lot of like low confidence in myself.

Like, oh, I work in this specific way, who’s going to put up with me? Stuff like that. But actually after, you know, starting CSL and like going through the mindset calls, um, I’ve just realized like, okay, like I am a very specific way and that can be a strength in if I’m in the right setting. And so it just helps me feel confident that like I am the right fit for like very specific things.

Did I, did that answer your question? Sorry. I hope Yes, the [00:09:00] tangents

Sarah Doody: No, no, you totally answered it. You know, I think, um, describing it as kind of like a doing research and a deep dive into yourself is exactly what it is. And, um, to your point earlier of, you know, pivoting your job search so you’re not applying to everything, but you’re really.

Applying to things that align with what you want. The way that you get clear on what you want is doing this first sprint that Mel just described. So, um, yeah, and I think the thing that you hit on too was like the confidence element and kind of thinking, oh my goodness, because of X, Y, Z in my past jobs, or, you know, different ways you work, et cetera, you can start to believe this narrative.

Like those skills are not going to be attractive to other companies, et cetera. And I think there’s this shift that happens for many people and it, it sounds like you, where it shifts from, like [00:10:00] those are a, a, a negative to those are actually a superpower and I’m gonna own those things. And when you go into then working on your resume and your portfolio and all those things with that attitude of, no, I’m gonna own those things about my past and, and my current strengths, um.

It really does change, like the quality of your resin, your quality of your portfolio, and frankly how you show up in interviews too.

Melp M: Yeah, definitely. Um, and I could talk a bit more about that. I think some very specific things is that, you know, I’m not someone who can just shut up and do the work. Like, I’ll be like, oh, why are we doing this?

How is this contributing to the bigger picture? How is this helping the company? And so a lot of bosses and managers in the past have been like, just be quiet and do it. And so like after that I’ve just been like, oh, I’m just a really difficult person to work with. And that has been like sitting with me for a long time.

But then now that I think about it, I’m like, no, I’m someone who challenges things and someone who can like actually bring a [00:11:00] really positive impact if I’m in the right environment. And so now, like I just really look for that right environment because I think, you know, I would be so miserable at a company where they just keep telling me to shut up and do the work.

Some people are really good at that. Like I respect, I respect it so much, but that is just not me.

Sarah Doody: Well, Mel, you and I have something in common because I, I was recently working on, let’s say a, a special project and, um, it’s no longer happening, but I was too told I was difficult to work with and a diva and I, I’ll send you a link to this medium article I just wrote, but I was like.

This is wild and divas are the people to get stuff done, you know? So I’ll send it to you after.

Melp M: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, like, you know, I, I think I did read that article and Okay. It just like resonated so much with me. ’cause I mean, I’ve never thought of myself of as a diva. I just thought of myself as like, difficult to [00:12:00] work with, even though like, I think of myself as a highly collaborative person, but I need to be in that right kind of environment.

’cause um, uh, oh, sorry. I just saw in the chat someone wants a link to the article so that people can read it. Um, but yeah, I think, uh. Sorry, I lost my train of thought.

Sarah Doody: That’s okay. No, you were just talking about like this, you, you always kind of thought, oh, I’m difficult. And then that, that reframe of like, no, I’m a diva.

And we’ll link to the article. But essentially I was inspired to write this article because I’d also, um, read a different article about how Eric Schmidt from Google in one of his books, he essentially, he wrote, you should hire the divas because the divas are going to be loud, but they’re gonna be loud about the things that are really important.

And if you don’t listen to them. You are gonna have problems essentially. So I thought, well, if Eric Schmidt from Google is saying we should hire the [00:13:00] divas, then I’m gonna write my diva article. So we’ll find it and we’ll link it to you guys after.

Melp M: Yeah, definitely. I think one of the things that is like, kind of my pet peeve is when a company just like keeps going in one direction because, um, that’s just what they’ve been doing, even though there’s no like proof or no reason that this is actually helping the company overall.

Yeah. And then I’ll be the one that’s just like, okay, I think we should try this or this or this, or like, I’ll really try to understand, and I think when people above me don’t understand either, and they’re just listening to the people above them and like. Nobody knows why they’re doing it this way. I think that just creates like a lot of like, I don’t know.

I cannot work in an environment where I don’t see the like, impact and results of the work that I do. And so that’s just really important to me.

Sarah Doody: Yeah. Well, we’re gonna come back to you and hear more about like where you are in your, uh, sprint journey inside [00:14:00] Career Strategy Lab,

So, um. Let’s continue on our discussion kind of with like a general question, and maybe we’ll go in the order of, um, Mel, Laura, and Jonathan. But, um, we talked a lot about kind of the, the transformation of some of your portfolio, some of the resumes, some of the results in in, in job searches, et cetera.

Melp A2

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Sarah Doody: But Melp, I’m curious, like how would you say you have changed, kinda like, personally between before you joined Career Strategy Lab and you know where you are now in, in your CSL?

That’s our short acronym for Career Strategy Lab.

Melp M: Um, so I’m actually, you know, even though I’ve been around for, uh, a few months already, I’ve been working through the materials like really slowly, really thoroughly. And so, uh, I’ve also skipped around a bit. Um, so right now I’m on the resume sprint. Mm-hmm.

Um, but [00:15:00] I’ve finished most of the LinkedIn and the Career Compass and, uh, yeah. Sorry, what was the question again? Just like what’s the difference? Like,

Sarah Doody: well, yeah, we could talk about, you know, based on going through LinkedIn, are you noticing more people reaching out to you or the other direction we could go is like, how have you changed personally, um, through all this.

Melp M: I guess like I spent a really long time on the very first sprint, which is, you know, your career compass. Like what do you actually wanna do in life and with your career? And I’ve just like stopped to really like, think deeply about like who I am, what I want, stuff like that. Um. And I think, uh, I’ve also just like every week I, um, I attend the mindset calls and we just like talk about like, a lot of issues like imposter syndrome, confidence, stuff like that.

And, um, so I feel like I’m starting to get more confident in, in my [00:16:00] work and like who I am, how much I’ve done, uh, because it’s really easy to just forget about that, um, and just be like, oh yeah, I’m not qualified. And then like you look at all your credentials and like you look at everything you’ve done and then be like, oh, I’ve done a ton of projects, like actually I’m pretty qualified.

Yeah. So I feel like my confidence is slowly going up, but it’s not immediate. I think stuff like this is going to be a. Journey, uh, year, many year long journey because you don’t just become confident overnight. Um, and it really, I, I’m hoping that like, you know, after my, after the portfolio sprint, like seeing what I did in actual stories, I am assuming that is where my confidence will pick up.

I don’t know. I hope that answered it.

Sarah Doody: Um, I, I, my hunch is that the answer is yes. That when you start to start writing those case studies and think more deeply about what you did, you are going to think like, wow, I’m so badass. You know, I thought I [00:17:00] was badass before, but now I’m really badass. You know? I think that’s probably what you’re gonna think after you do your portfolio.

Melp M: Yeah. I think it’s just, I’ve just been, you know, working through CSL stuff pretty slowly because I’ve been freelancing on the side and so I’ve just been busy with other things. Um. So, yeah, I just haven’t gotten as far as like other people have. Yeah.

Sarah Doody: And everyone goes at their own pace. Like people who are maybe not employed right now and not freelancing might be treating this like a full-time job and might be going faster and other people go at different paces and that’s just kind of life.

But one question I wanna ask you really quick was, you know, you got your master’s from the University of Michigan and, you know, universities often have, uh, resources to, um, help people after they graduate to get hired and stuff like that. I’m curious, did you leverage any of those things or what, what about CSL might be different from [00:18:00] what, uh, that school or that that program offered you?

If, if you don’t mind me sharing or if you don’t mind. Yeah, definitely. You don’t mind sharing. So

Melp M: I even enrolled in a course that was like. About career and like, it, it was all about, like, it was very similar to CSL and it was just like a whole class about that. But it didn’t help me, I think, um, I think because the job market right now is still like really rough.

Um, so like, I just like followed all of that. Um, and I, I think it wasn’t enough because I have been applying for the past year and have just gotten like nothing.

Sarah Doody: Hmm.

Melp M: Um, and I do make. Use of the, um, career development office. You know, I, I meet with them, um, I met with them a lot like in the last semester, maybe like once a week to just be like, Hey, go over my resume.

And so actually starting CSLI had a pretty solid resume already that I had just been like, fine tuning for the past two years. Um, but what’s interesting is, you know, [00:19:00] when I joined CSL actually like Sarah, your method is like, like kind of different. Um, and I think that’s what stood out to me is, you know, I’ve just been trying all these things that have been recommended by so many people and I’m just like, okay, let’s try a different approach.

Um, and so yeah, I think I’m like really excited about just doing it a different way and hoping that that will work out.

Sarah Doody: Can you say more about what you mean by how our approach is different outta curiosity?

Melp M: Um, I think. I think, um, CSL is actually like really, really, really in depth. And I think this is something that I didn’t realize before I joined.

I was just like, oh yeah, you just kinda like go over this and then go over this and then go over this. And I actually spent two and a half months on the very first sprint, the career compass sprint because there is just like worksheets and worksheets and worksheets and there’s just like so much stuff to think about and so many like different tasks.

Like I was so intrigued [00:20:00] by like the mentor model one, where it’s like you think about people like, um, professionally who you just like really look up to and like, what do you really like? Like what do you really like about them? And. You know, a lot of the times it’s because you have something that they have inside you, and so it’s kind of like a little bit of a predictor.

It kind of shows you the direction you want to move in, and then you can move in that direction and, you know, just stuff like that that is not covered by a lot of like career coaches and like career specialists. And so I just feel like CSL just goes into so much depth that like didn’t even happen in the class that I took.

Sarah Doody: That’s cool to hear. And, um, um, I, I, I think, so a theme that is coming through, you know, our entire discussion today is this really critical step in identifying more specifics about you and your strengths [00:21:00] and your, you know, the career roadmap, if you will, for. I, I call it the product of you, right? Because we all make product roadmaps for the products we work on, but when was the last time you ever made a product roadmap for your career?

Right? I’m guessing not before a career strategy lab is, is my guess.

I, I love that summary. You did, because I think. Confidence is probably something we could stay and talk about for three hours here. I’m sure everyone on this call probably, um, has hesitations and worries around confidence, and I think one of the, one of the things that’s so important is, number one, not waiting until you feel confident to take action because mm-hmm confidence comes from taking action.

But also, you know, you can be writing words on your resume and, and words in your portfolio, et cetera, but if you don’t believe them, the words are probably not going to do justice to your actual skills. And when you get to an interview, you’re definitely [00:22:00] not going to exude the confidence that you need to communicate how awesome you are.

Melp M: I agree with that a hundred percent. And I’ve been feeling that throughout my journey too. Um, like before I joined CSL, like, ’cause I’m switching into product management. So at first I was like, okay, I need to get like this certificate, this certificate, this certificate. I need so much training to do it.

And just by like thinking about like my experiences and the projects I’ve worked on, I’ve realized I have the experience already and that’s something that I would’ve, no one could convince me that before.

Sarah Q3

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Sarah Doody: Yeah. When you take the time to really think through what you did beyond just pulling together a bunch of deliverables and throwing them into a portfolio and just giving really generic, vague explanations of it. Thinking through, you know, how this [00:23:00] impacted the team, the company, the users, why you made certain decisions, how you handled that time when some stakeholder went off the rails or, you know, you ran into some problem with, uh, testing something that maybe you designed that turned, turned out.

Oh, no one could use it after usability testing. Like, how did you handle that? You know, thinking through all of those things does exactly what you said, Mel. Like help you realize how awesome you are and then that comes through in all of your resume, portfolio, et cetera. And in those interviews too,

Melp A3

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Melp M: um, I also wanted to mention, I noticed a lot of people in the chat are asking about. Portfolios and linked to portfolios. Um, so Jonathan, since you mentioned your portfolio, like having three, uh, case studies, did you do a PDF version or a website version?

Jonathan A3

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Jonathan Coen: Um, so I did, I did both. Um, I started with [00:24:00] the, um, the PDF version, um, since that is the thing that is, um, you know, each time I’m applying for something or speaking with a recruiter, that’s what I send them.

Um, ’cause it’s, it’s tailor made to, um, to that company and to that role. Um, and then the, the website is just something I feel like I needed to have, um, just so I can have some sort of presence out there. Um, and I’ve got just very, um, where, uh, one of my case studies might be like 15 slides in, um, uh, from Keynote and it’s in a, in the PDF deck, um, you know, it’s maybe condensed down to like four or five paragraphs on the actual page, on the website.

Um, and that came from speaking with some other, um, of the, um. Peers in, in, in, um, career strategy lab, um, where, you know, we were all sitting there and looking at each other’s portfolios thinking, okay, if I saw this at first glance, would my eyes glaze over or would I get interested in it? Or would I think, oh, that’s okay.

All right. I, I want, I learned, wanna learn more. Um, in presenting too much information, it was getting the eyes glaze over effect, which was not what I wanted. [00:25:00] So, um, website got a much simpler version with a page for each, um, case study. And then the, um, actual portfolio deck has all of the details. And then there’s a comment, um, in the chat about, um, I, I have a note on each of those case studies that says, uh, each, those pages says a full case study is available upon request.

Um, I don’t think there’s anything in any of my case studies that are, um, that would violate an NDA, but I’ve tried to, my best to, to, to, um, not include any sort of, um, uh, data, um, that is proprietary for any of those clients. Um. That being said, you know, it’s part of the secret sauce. Um, and so just trying not to throw that out there into the world.

Um, it’s only upon request. And then just walking through that with a recruiter or with a hiring team.

Melp A3 2

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Melp M: Um, yeah, I think a lot of people, like, um, a lot of the audience probably don’t know this, but Sarah [00:26:00] really emphasizes doing a PDF version. Um, and just really because making a website takes so much time that it’s not a good investment of your time. It could be better spent doing other stuff. And I think that’s just the general like mindset of CSL is just like, how can you, like, maximize your time, maximize the effectiveness of what you’re doing?

Um, and I just thought that was like really valuable too. ’cause it, it kind of like goes into other things, other parts of my life. You know,

Jonathan A3 2

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Jonathan Coen: it’s, it’s an interesting thought, Mel, and it’s, um, uh, it. One of our, it was one of our mindset calls where someone said like, Hey, you guys are not visual designers.

Like UX is a separate field. There should not be an expectation on you to to, to, you know, uh, put together. Yes, it has to be professional, but like, it, my expect the expectation of me is not that I, I am a developer or a web specific designer. Um, you know, my area of expertise is within the realm of ux. And so focusing [00:27:00] on that, um, the case study deck first, uh, I think was really, really helpful.

Um, in that it made me focus on the content, um, and, and the narrative that I’m trying to tell, um, um, companies as opposed to getting bogged down in like, okay, what platform am I gonna use? And then, you know, okay, how am I gonna game SEO and this blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that, though, all those things are, they’re great, but they’re all distractions for what we’re trying to accomplish.

Sarah Doody: I couldn’t have said it better myself. I’m so glad I don’t have to answer the question, but it’s, it’s so true that, um, you know, I called this whole thing career strategy lab, not just for fun, but because it’s about strategy. It’s about not just going through the motions and, you know, ticking boxes and doing checklists, but I literally.

Designed it like I thought about the journey of getting hired and how busy and sometimes burnt out people are and [00:28:00] the amount of time they have to do all this. And as one of you said, like Mel said, you know, a big part of it is helping you focus on the things that you need to do in the order that you need to do it.

So they give you the most ROI for the time and effort that you put into it, essentially. So that’s why it’s called Career Strategy Lab.

But, um, the final question is really, um, for what advice would you have for anyone who’s kind of on the fence about jumping into something like career strategy lab and, or like, what would you tell them when they join?

If, if you had a tip for them, you can answer one or both of those questions.

Melp A4

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Sarah Doody: So, um, Mel, let’s start with you.

Melp M: Um, yeah, so the one that jumps to mind is, you know, I’ve mentioned I spent two and a half months on the very first sprint, and that’s because I was just like, you know, so focused on the details. I tried to make it perfect and tried to revise a lot of stuff, but [00:29:00] everyone, like all the coaches really advocate for like MVP, like minimum viable product or the BFD, the bad first draft.

So everyone was like, get your bad first draft out there, let’s take a look at it. Mm-hmm. Because if you put out like a very early version and get feedback, then you can just make those changes instead of spending so much time perfecting it and just wasting a bunch of time. So I feel like the, the hours that we do put in are like, very efficient and effective.

Sarah Conclusion

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Sarah Doody: Awesome. Thank you too. Jonathan Melp and Laura, big rental of applause.

Thank you for sharing like just so transparently and openly about your. Very personal experiences and your struggles and you know, how you really leveraged the process, so to speak, um, to get to where you are today. So I wanna let you both drop off if [00:30:00] you want to, but we are going to dive into this tour because some of you have been DMing me wanting to see some of this.

Awesome. Okay, guys, well let’s wrap it up then. I’m, I, I am glad you stuck around with us, this one a little bit over, but hopefully you got so much from Laura and Mel and Jonathan around their experience.

Hopefully it just gave you some hope in the job market, et cetera, because I think. You know, in general, negative stories get more likes, et cetera. Right. And I think it, it like pushes down all the positive stories that are happening in the UX and product world. And so that’s part of the reason why we do these, um, sessions to help you connect in a small environment like this with other people who are having success so you can hear what they’re doing to have that success.

And also to give you a tour of Career Strategy lab because there’s [00:31:00] so much in it. And despite my ongoing never ending efforts to try and communicate the depth of the depth and value of this thing, I think sometimes it’s just helpful to literally see it and then hear it from, from people who are not me.

So, um, that is all. See you later. Bye Catherine. See. All right.