Hired stories from 3 mid & senior UX people recently hired in USA, Canada, and England

Sarah Doody [00:00:00]: Hey there. I’m Sarah Doody, host of the career strategy podcast. Many professionals are seeking more impact, flexibility, growth, and let’s face it, getting paid what they’re worth. But how do you unlock this in your career? It starts with strategy. I’m taking you behind the scenes of what’s working for my career coaching clients. You’ll hear strategies and actionable, yet sometimes against the grain, advice for how you can be the CEO of your career and stop dreading Mondays. Ready to level up your career? Let’s get after it. Thank you all for joining us.

Sarah Doody [00:00:40]: This is our June open house and q and a with alumni of career strategy lab. So if you’re here, you’re probably curious about career strategy lab. You maybe are interested, wanna hear stories from people who recently got hired. So if that’s you, you’re in the right place because we have 3 awesome people lined up to share their stories. Becca is here from career strategy lab. She will be jumping in to the chat if you have questions. And she may jump in with some q and a alongside me depending on how bombarded we are with questions. So we will see here.

Sarah Doody [00:01:27]: Alright. So as I said, we have 3 awesome alumni here. I will quickly introduce them, and then we will jump into some questions. So first of all, we have, Duncan. He recently got hired as a global head of product design, which maybe he’ll tell you more about. Then we have Jaden who got hired as a product designer at an ecommerce company. Jaden is from the United States. Duncan is, I believe, from London.

Sarah Doody [00:02:01]: Right, Duncan? Did I get that right?

Duncan Abell [00:02:03]: I work in London. Yes.

Sarah Doody [00:02:05]: Okay. Yes. Based in London. And then Jamie currently lives in Canada. Jamie got hired as a senior product designer at, a software company. And Jamie is from living close to Ottawa, Canada, close to where I am from actually or grew up. So let’s dive into kind of our initial round of questions here. I would love for each of you to introduce yourselves and tell us, like, a little bit about what you’re doing now and what you were doing kind of before you joined career strategy labs.

Sarah Doody [00:02:40]: So, Duncan, let’s start with you. We’ll go Duncan, Jaden, Jamie.

Duncan Abell [00:02:45]: Perfect. Thanks, Sarah. That’s, really good to meet everyone. Hi, everywhere. Even evening, afternoon, morning, etcetera. So my name is Duncan Abel. I, I’ll go back to why I joined StrategyLab. Yeah.

Duncan Abell [00:02:59]: It was because I’d, left the previous company where they had a restructure, which meant that, I was let go if you like. It knocked my confidence a lot, but it also gave me, the time to review who I was, what I was doing. And I needed some kind of format around understanding what the world looked like in terms of being able to go and find a job. And that was with discovering the right way to speak, the right way to act, the right methodologies, and getting some sort of framework around how I presented myself. I went to the strategy lab, and that helped me get on the path to interviews. I took a couple of interviews and was very fortunate to get the role that I’m currently in, which is actually head of UX and content at BSI, which is the British Standards Institute, which is a global organization. And I’m currently in that role having come in to look after or develop a UX team as well as look after the launch of a website that was sort of halfway through a process and stuttering. So there was a bit of a clear out, and they they said, bring someone in there who can actually drive this and deliver it.

Duncan Abell [00:04:13]: And that that’s pretty much what I did, and I’ve inherited a little bit of brand now as well due to other, organizational changes as well. So it’s it’s quite a a mixed role, but it also, has a basis and a really secure foundation in UX.

Sarah Doody [00:04:29]: And correct me if I’m wrong, but I would imagine, you know, because it sounds like part of this role involves building a a team, this could be a role that you could kinda maybe be at for a while, and that if you’re hiring the team, they may want to make sure you’re there to manage and nurture the team also. So do do you feel that way, or is what’s your hunch so far in the role?

Duncan Abell [00:04:54]: That’s a really good question. So, yes, there is definitely a desire to build out a team and what what is termed a memory muscle within the organization. You user experience is not something that the organization has as a as a foundation. And what what I hear a lot, and I’ve heard this in previous organizations, is that we have an inward out attitude. So we we’re very familiar with our own expertise, but not very clear on how a user actually relates to us and how they consume. So to build that team is going to be at the crux of actually selling our products and services correctly. So, yes, you’re right. In terms of understanding the organization better, playing that back inside the organization, and then building a group of people around that.

Duncan Abell [00:05:46]: And it often comes to not just bringing people in, but actually transforming teams and individuals and making them advocates of user experience.

Sarah Doody [00:05:56]: Awesome. Well, I’m glad it’s working out so far.

Jamie O’Leary [00:05:59]: Thank you.

Sarah Doody [00:06:00]: Yeah. Alright. So, Jaden, let’s go to you. Just tell people kind of what you’re doing now and, you know, how you found your way into career strategy lab.

Jaden [00:06:11]: Sure. Yeah. I have a little bit more of a unique experience, not to go too deep in the weeds, but I actually studied apparel design way back in the day, which is a primary example of why you shouldn’t let 18 year olds choose their career path. But that’s what I chose. So I did that for about 6 years and realized I just didn’t like my job. So I ended up switching about 5 years ago into product design and felt like my career was going pretty well, to be honest. Like, really loved the job I was at. I was working at a sales enablement company in Seattle and, was a part of the mass layoffs that a lot of people are these days or, experiencing these days.

Jaden [00:06:47]: So, basically, was also 9 months pregnant too when I got laid off. So that was unfortunate timing as well, but I took, about 6 months to enjoy time with my daughter before embarking on my career search journey. And it took about 8 months to land a job from there. So it was about a full year that that it took me to actually land my job. I was just spinning my wheels nonstop. I thought my 5 years experience would be enough to carry me, and I would’ve applied to 100 and 100 of jobs and seen not a lot of, not a lot of interviews coming back my way. So, yeah, finally joined and got a job about I don’t I think it was, like, 30 or 40 days in after joining, which was great. I just put my head down and got, like, work very, very quickly.

Jaden [00:07:36]: And now I’m working at a company called Zipline. It actually combines my past career in apparel with product design, which is very unique. I never thought I’d find a job that combined both worlds, but they’re kind of colliding together, which is really cool. And I’m a senior product designer there. It’s a smaller team. It’s 3 designers and a manager, but I think that’s gonna be pretty unique because I’ll get to touch a lot of different parts of, of the product.

Sarah Doody [00:08:02]: Yeah. And I I appreciate your story because I think there are probably many people who were previously or are kind of switching careers into user experience. And, you know, I think what you said is such a an important, you know, reality checkup. You thought your 5 years of experience would be enough, and then you ended up applying to, as you said, hundreds and hundreds of jobs and then realized, you know, this is not working and joined career strategy lab. And you said, you know, hired within 30 or 40 days after. And we’ll get into the details of, like, what did Jaden do in 30 or 40 days to get hired. So we’ll we’ll cover that in a little bit. But I think it’s really important to reiterate that, you know, years of experience today, I don’t think are enough.

Sarah Doody [00:08:50]: It’s really about how good are you at articulating that experience throughout, you know, the interview and application process.

Jaden [00:08:59]: Definitely. Yeah. It’s great to be here and happy to answer any other questions that people have.

Sarah Doody [00:09:04]: Awesome. We have a line we have a line of questions. So let’s go to Jamie, though. And, Jamie, where are you from? Where did you get hired? And kind of what was your, experience kind of and journey of applying and then joining career strategy lab?

Jamie O’Leary [00:09:20]: Sure. Originally, I’m from Ireland. Hopefully, my accent hasn’t fully disappeared, but I’m

Sarah Doody [00:09:25]: based in I’m still there.

Jamie O’Leary [00:09:27]: That’s good. That’s good. I’m based in Canada now in Ottawa, as Sarah has said. In terms of my journey, I’ve been in design for probably 12 years at this point. Originally, a graphic designer, then switching into tech. And like Jaden, I had around 5 to 6 years experience in tech before I got laid off during that period when so many companies were were letting go of designers. And I was still quite confident that I would be able to get a job after that day off. I had a decent portfolio, and I felt I knew how to put my resume together and articulate my experience.

Jamie O’Leary [00:10:06]: But given the competition and given the environment at the time, it just proved to be extremely challenging for me to to get work. And I was applying for 100 and 100 of jobs, tens of jobs every day, and I was getting some success. I was getting interviews, and there was some some encouraging signs, but I just couldn’t seal the deal. I couldn’t get that job. I couldn’t land it. So, originally, I’d worked with an individual career coach who who helped me out to a certain degree. It wasn’t the exact fit I was looking for, and what I thought I was really missing was the the community you get from career strategy lab, working with a team of other designers and working with the mentors, and that’s such an important part of career strategy lab, the support you get. That was what I felt what I was missing.

Jamie O’Leary [00:10:59]: I was nervous because I had already spent quite a bit of money on the career coach I originally was working with. And, obviously, being unemployed, it’s a big financial commitment. But in the in the back of my mind, it’s it’s always a good a good opportunity to invest in yourself. It’s never wasted money. So I took the the chance in Career Strategy Lab. Just being aware of Sarah from from our thought leadership work, seeing her post on LinkedIn and our and our podcast, and I was I was confident that I was gonna get a good experience. And and working through the the time I spent those 2 or 3 months I had with career strategy lab. Obviously, honestly, it really it really reset me going from a a mindset of being lacking in confidence and feeling defeated, and I’ve always struggled with imposter syndrome as a designer.

Jamie O’Leary [00:11:54]: So just having that support of the team and having such a solid set of frameworks and all of the materials so well organized, it it really helps set me straight. And right now, I’m working as a senior growth designer with a a team called Contact Monkey. It’s a b to b organization, focused on email marketing.

Sarah Doody [00:12:17]: I I really appreciate that you hit on, you know, this this element of community inside career strategy lab, and then it really helped helped you with, as you said, that imposter syndrome and and confidence and things like that. And I’m wondering, you know, for all of you, are there kind of overarching mindset shifts that stood out, you know, unique to you during your time in career strategy lab, similar to what to what Jamie said? Or maybe, Jamie, you have more. So I’ll kinda open it up to see who who else might wanna share on that topic.

Jamie O’Leary [00:12:52]: Yeah. I can speak to my own mindset shift, and I certainly just realizing that there are a lot of other designers in the same situation as me. Being in a job search on your own is just so challenging, and it’s it’s really hard to keep motivated and keep positive when you’re getting those rejections every day. So my first mindset shift was that, you know, I’m not alone, and there’s a lot of people in the same boat as me and a lot of designers who are talented, but still just can’t find the work. And my second mind shift was that looking at my materials and my past experience, I’m actually I am a solid designer. I’m good at what I do despite the fact that I’ve got let go and have had challenges in my career. I’ve got lots of wins. I’m working through the career road map materials around assessing my previous career positives and some of my failures and helping to reframe those started to put me in a positive mindset and really put me in a a solid frame of my mind going to interviews whereas sometimes going to interviews because you’ve been rejected so many times.

Jamie O’Leary [00:14:07]: It’s almost, you’re almost going through with a mindset of being defeated before it’s even happened because your mindset is negative, and you may not even fully realize it. But taking the time to step back and really assess your previous career and what’s gone right and also what’s gone wrong really helped me reframe reframe things.

Sarah Doody [00:14:27]: Yeah. I did. Before anyone else speaks, I just wanna, like, double highlight that because I think this is one of the things we hear quite quite often where people doubt their skills, doubt their experience as you said. And, you know, the feedback we often hear from people is that the very act of joining Career Strategy Lab, and then thinking more deeply about my resume, my LinkedIn, my portfolio and the projects I previously worked on, and making sure that I really recognize my contributions and my skills on those projects. That’s really where the transformation is. Because I think many of you don’t think deeply enough about what you’ve done in the past. And you just kind of think, oh, well, I was responsible for research, or I made a design system, or I, you know, was the interaction designer or something. But you don’t really dig into the nitty gritty of no, what did you actually do? And I think what you’re saying, Duncan, is, you know, that process of thinking through what you did previously was a big part of realizing, no.

Sarah Doody [00:15:41]: Wait. I really am awesome at what I do, and I just need to figure out how to communicate that more more effectively.

Duncan Abell [00:15:48]: For sure. Let’s take the credit. We’re good. It was Jamie who said it.

Jamie O’Leary [00:15:53]: But No worries. I was just gonna say it’s it’s it is so hard to do that on your own Oh. When you’re Yeah. On your own in your office and trying to motivate yourself to to take that time to write the case study and to take back in your career. You really do need the the frameworks and the support of the mentors and the group of other designers. It really helps facilitate that process.

Sarah Doody [00:16:19]: Yes. I now realize how I mixed up interchanged your names. So I’m I apologize. But Duncan or Jaden, do you have anything else to add to this?

Jaden [00:16:28]: I can go next. I think there’s a couple things from, like, my mindset that definitely shifted. I think my past experience in apparel, I used to think of it as really negative thing. I used to think of it as a waste of the first 6 years of my career. I was basically starting overall all over again. And I feel like during this program, I really realized and was able to shift my mindset into realizing a lot of those soft skills were so transferable into product design. And being able to tell hiring managers, like, I’m really great at interpersonal communication skills because of my last or my past career in apparel, and I’m really great at organization and communication skills. So all of that able being able to flip that has just been, like, a huge mindset shift for me.

Jaden [00:17:13]: Also, I think not being so overwhelmed with redoing the portfolio and redoing the resume. I probably have redone my portfolio in the past 5 years, like, maybe 20 times. So I will look at someone else’s portfolio and think I need to copy theirs or, like, use theirs as, like, a baseline, and I used to redo it over and over and over again. But being able to realize, like, what my strong points are, become a better storyteller, and realize that my past experience is good enough that I don’t need to go and copy someone else’s for lack of better word. Right.

Duncan Abell [00:17:47]: I I’m just gonna join in on the on the community part. Mhmm. I I think it’s so easy to get into your own echo chamber. I think that that reflects in both your work itself trying to get the job is you just find yourself going round and round. I remember being in the, in some of those sessions and hearing people say, is it good enough yet? And and I I’m just redoing this bit. And, yes, you can continually refine, but it it distracts and detracts away from what you’re really trying to achieve. And I I think what what happened on the course was there was a real sense of people getting a precision and accuracy as to a reflection in what their core skill was, which is what you’re saying, Sarah. I I came at, you know, I I came at the course with 20 years of experience.

Duncan Abell [00:18:35]: I I didn’t know what to do with it. I I didn’t know what it what it was that resonated. I didn’t know how to sell it, and I I literally had no confidence to be able to bring it forward and say, this is what I do. So the course gave me that structure. Jamie, you mentioned that. The structure was key. It also sent me on a routine. It also made me aware that I was I was the one who can make this happen.

Duncan Abell [00:18:58]: Not a nice picture on a page. Not it’s being laid out slightly differently. It it was literally, I have to understand my core because that’s what someone’s gonna buy from me. And to do that in a community and hear other people do the same thing were was incredibly powerful because you’d hear something in someone else, and and they would talk about I you know, do what you just said, Jayden. I I’m incredibly good at selling and, organizing a team. You know? That that that just resonates. That’s part of being a good UX person. It doesn’t have to be specifically, I’m great at doing a prototype.

Duncan Abell [00:19:35]: It’s it’s the wraparound of how you fit in into the organization that’s trying to find you. And and you can find that quite quickly. Once you start identifying those holes, you can see it in the in the job description that’s coming back at you. So, yeah, I think I think being part of a community and and having that bounce back of other people saying the same thing as they’re going through that process was such a strong feeling.

Sarah Doody [00:20:01]: Yeah. I think part of what I think you’re saying, and I’ll I’ll just reiterate it is, you know, when you are not just doing this on your own in a in a silo or vacuum, it’s it makes it ensures that you don’t get stuck in those, like, cycles of negative thinking and doubt and things. And when you’re able to recognize, no. Like, I may have 2 years of experience, 12 or 22 years of experience, but at the end of the day, everyone struggles with the same things when it comes to, you know, the job search and interviews and things like that. And so I think that’s kind of a big part of it. I think just letting go of that feeling that, you know, you are the only person that that struggles with this. So I I just really wanted to highlight that point you made. And the fact that, like you said, you’ve been working for 20 years and, you know, it doesn’t get easier.

Sarah Doody [00:20:54]: But in your case, like, part of the challenge is, how do I package up and present 20 years of experience in something that is still going to be digestible and effective for recruiters and hiring managers?

Duncan Abell [00:21:09]: Yeah. It it was very much that. And it it was interesting. When I went to the interview, there was a real sense of I turned up with a a balanced confidence, which I I hadn’t had in a long time, mainly because I’d stripped myself back, and I knew what I was gonna say. And it was the kind of confidence that I often see in sports people when they they practice enough that they can just get to the interview and not have to fret about what they’re gonna say. They have all that. They’ve done that understanding. And you come in and you just go, okay.

Duncan Abell [00:21:43]: I’m I’m getting a question. Let’s let’s just take a breath. And all of that came out. I could feel myself in the interview just performing at a level that I haven’t had in ages. So it was it was fascinating to get that that confidence in myself.

Sarah Doody [00:21:58]: Yeah. I I think it’s, you know, that that confidence. And I I think that confidence is somewhat created by the process of making your resume, making your portfolio, etcetera, and going, you know, below the surface compared to what, you know, your previous resume or portfolio may have been communicating. So even though it it feels like the task of resume portfolio, etcetera, are just so much work, it’s not just about the actual documents. It’s about them being able to go into interviews, as you said, much more confidence and almost like an out of body experience. Right? I’m wondering, like, how is this happening compared to past interview experiences?

Duncan Abell [00:22:43]: Yeah. Totally. And I I think two points there for me. 11 was I remember one of the first projects I did was the mentor stripping down to who your mentors are, your real mentors, which I think you’d you’d done, when you came out of a previous job. And I it really resonated with me that okay. So this is the real me. And I still come back to that and still mentioning a lot to to people. And and I think the second part was getting to the interview and selling myself.

Duncan Abell [00:23:14]: Mhmm. So being able to say something in a way that I could genuinely sell something and and not feel like I was just spouting it because that what I thought they wanted to hear and doing in a way that didn’t sound boastful. It just sounded like, I got asked to do this because I’d succeeded on the previous project.

Jamie O’Leary [00:23:35]: Mhmm. And

Duncan Abell [00:23:36]: I felt more confident than the minute I went through that, and it was directly related to the fact that I had that underpinning structure. So, yeah, it’s it’s incredibly powerful.

Sarah Doody [00:23:46]: One of one of the things that, Duncan just mentioned was this kind of mentor. We call it the mentor model inside career strategy lab, and it’s in kind of the first sprint that you go through. So if if you forget or or don’t know, career strategy lab is divided up into these 5 sprints, for example, resume, portfolio, job search interviews. But the first one is your career roadmap, and it’s like a product roadmap for your career. And so one of the activities in there is kind of identifying people that you are inspired by or that you wanna emulate because oftentimes, you know, when you do that, it helps you get clarity on on the future of your career. So I’m curious for our panel, you know, thinking back to that first sprint, the career road map sprint, does anything stand out, you know, in hindsight? I know it may have been a while ago, but had you ever done anything like that before? Or what do you think the impact of that sprint was on, you know, this whole journey?

Jamie O’Leary [00:24:53]: Yeah. I can I can speak to that? Certainly for me, and I’ve I’ve spoken to this a little bit previously, but it was really about taking the time to look through my previous career experiences and just really appreciate the depth of the successes I’ve made and overcoming the challenges I’ve had. And that was really important in terms of, like, building that confidence and getting over that imposter syndrome. Looking at the past 12 months, even if it hasn’t been the best 12 months I’ve been looking for work, I’ve still achieved a lot. You know, I’ve been working really hard. I’m committed to this job search and thinking about all I’ve learned. Those were some really positive things that I took away from it. Reaching out to my past colleagues as well and hearing about all the positive things that they had to say about working with me.

Jamie O’Leary [00:25:45]: And it was interesting. There were some clear themes that came back from everyone I spoke to around my teamwork and my ability to collaborate and UI skills. Those were some things that stood out. So it was really encouraging for me to get that feedback and helped me build that confidence as I move through the rest of the the CSL course.

Jaden [00:26:08]: I can

Sarah Doody [00:26:09]: Yeah. Do you remember back that far?

Jaden [00:26:12]: I do. Yeah. I would say I kinda touched on, like, you know, the apparel stuff and be able to twist that. But I think, ultimately, what I learned is just how to own my story. I was very I don’t know if embarrassed was the right word, but when you see a year long break on LinkedIn, I feel like I assumed people would think that was terrible. And I had a great excuse. I had my daughter and, like, was taking maternity leave, but, ultimately, like, I don’t know if a year is gonna compare to someone that just got laid off a month ago. So really owning my story and saying, like, I’m proud that I had my daughter, and I’m proud that I am looking for a job at the same time as being day care.

Jaden [00:26:50]: It’s very tough to do if you’ve never done that before. It was something that was super, super important, and I remember I even mentioned that in a lot of my presentations. Like, my final reviews, I’d say, like, this is what I did, and it gave me these skills to be able to take care of her and also work on stuff at the same time. And so being able to, like, talk about that and just own your story was a very, very important thing that I need to learn too because I was very scared to tell people about the year break that I had.

Sarah Doody [00:27:18]: Yeah. Yeah. This this theme of owning your story comes up so so much, and I think your example is just so perfect for this because I think, you know, it’s it’s so easy to kind of make these assumptions and jump to conclusions about what people may think when they see a year long gap on your resume because you literally had a baby and was raising it. But I think, like, that mindset shift of just realizing, no. This is what happened. I’m proud of this. And if people don’t want that, then you probably don’t wanna work for them anyway. You know? And I think just leaning into that power is really, really, really important and something we see, you know, over and over, whether it’s that career gap or, you know, switching careers from another industry or we’ve had people join career strategy lab and then quit their jobs because in going through some of the early things in career strategy lab, they realized, wow, this job I’m in right now, like, it’s really, really not in alignment with what I want to do in the future, etcetera.

Sarah Doody [00:28:20]: And they were fortunately in a position where they could quit the job. But, yeah, owning that story is so, so important.

Jaden [00:28:27]: Yeah. I completely agree. And I think looking back, I was so sad about getting let go from my last job. But like you mentioned, any company that’s willing to let go of someone 9 months pregnant is probably not a place that I want to be working at. So it was very much a blessing in disguise looking back, definitely.

Sarah Doody [00:28:43]: Yeah. I mean, I’m curious kind of while we’re on the topic of the sprints, do any of the other sprints jump out to you? You know, and it may be different for each of you just in terms of, like, this one was really powerful or this one really was a game changer for me. Anyone have thoughts on that?

Duncan Abell [00:28:59]: Yeah. The the for me, the the one where you you write the elevator pitch.

Sarah Doody [00:29:03]: Mhmm. That first one. Yeah.

Duncan Abell [00:29:05]: That was the first time that I synthesized down everything I was doing. And I I reread the the model the example that that’s given in the the sprint over and over again. And it started creating a a different way of being able to present. It was succinct. It was purposeful. It was it was actually based on what I wanted to do. And and one once I had that kernel, that anchor, I I knew that everything else that was coming from that would be on the right path. And I I just wanna reflect, though, in what Jaden was saying that one thing that you do get when you’re inside the community and inside the course is you get a proper perspective on what you’re trying to do, and you get you can get rid of the noise around it.

Duncan Abell [00:29:52]: And I think that noise gets in the way a lot. You know, the noise of you you you talk about it on the course of job sites, of responses that aren’t right, of people telling you that, you know, you’re great, but, you know, maybe you didn’t do that. You know, whatever it happens to be, all that noise goes away, and you focus. And I I think, you know, that going back to that that one sprint, that gave me absolute focus and accuracy. And it it was really, really meaningful to be able to put that in place and then anchor for the rest of the project.

Sarah Doody [00:30:26]: Yeah. I I like how you refer to it as an an anchor. And, you know, we we interchange what we call it, but we officially call it this compass statement, elevator pitch about me. But, like, the idea of a compass or an anchor that really, like, guides you and grounds you in decision making so that, you know, if if it does come down to a situation where you have multiple job offers, you can refer back to this anchor or compass statement and say, okay, wait a second. Which of these job offers aligns best with this this Compass statement? And it comes up quite often when people tell us they got hired, and the the value of being able to refer back to that as a filter is so huge.

Duncan Abell [00:31:13]: Yeah. And I I think if you do get to an interview and you present yourself, it it presents you more authentically. Mhmm. That that gives you a sense of reflection in the the person interviewing you feels like they’re gonna miss out because you know that you’ve made a connection. It’s quite an interesting revert role reversal that happened.

Jaden [00:31:34]: I can go next, on that same question. The 2 sprints that I think that really stuck out to me were first of all, was the LinkedIn sprint that we had. I was someone who’s terrified to post on LinkedIn. I didn’t wanna post the wrong thing. I don’t consider myself anything close to, like, an influencer or anything like that. I didn’t know what to post. And so having some guidance on not only how to make my LinkedIn pro profile look better and how to make myself sound better, but also, like, getting over the hump of being very scared to post on LinkedIn was very important. I made a post while I was in career strategy lab that got over 13,000 views and made it before interviews.

Jaden [00:32:16]: And just being able to put yourself out there and not realizing that it’s okay to post online soon, it was very, very hard for me for whatever reason. And the second one would be the portfolio. That, like I mentioned, was I was spending so much time redoing my portfolio all of the time, and I learned how to be a better storyteller. I never realized how much my portfolio looked like the masses prior to this. I think the most people say something along the lines of like, hi. I’m Jaden. I’m a product designer from Seattle, and I love to solve tough problems, with empathy at the center of my decision making or something like that. And Yeah.

Sarah Doody [00:32:51]: You may

Jaden [00:32:52]: have it. And I think at one point, mine said something close to that a long time ago. But I not I felt like visually my portfolio looked great, but I didn’t know how to tell stories. If I was bored reading my portfolio, how could I expect other people to want to read it? So just being a better storyteller, realizing that listing problem, site map, wireframe, that’s not gonna keep someone interested for the entire time because everyone’s says that. So those are probably the 2 that stuck out to me the most.

Jamie O’Leary [00:33:19]: Yeah. It would be the same to as Jaden. The certainly, the case study sprint was super impactful for me. Taking the time to go back and really think about exactly what I did in each case study, go into the real level of detail and nitty gritty that was required to be able to tell that story really well was as painful as it was for me. It was so important, and it just allowed me to have a level of detail in my case study and my story that not a lot of other designers have when they speak about their work. And I even had quite a few interviewers reach out to me and say that was one of the best case studies they’ve they’ve been presented with. Maybe they were humoring me. I’m not sure, but I’ll take it.

Jamie O’Leary [00:34:06]: And also the the networking, learning how to really effectively apply for a job, not just sending out your resume on job sites and applying for jobs over LinkedIn, taking the time to connect with people on LinkedIn, foster relationships, comment on their posts, start conversations, and just build rapport so that people have you in their mind. When they’re looking through those resumes. They already have a little bit of an idea of who you are, and that just helps you stand out from the crowd. Trying to be intentional about how you message people and not just sending a generic message, taking the time to read the job description, read their profile, and crafting an intentional message really went a long way to help me land quite a few interviews.

Sarah Doody [00:34:55]: And for the record, I’m going to guess that feedback that you received about your portfolio being, you know, so amazing after the interviews. I’d wager a guess they were telling the truth, because we hear that from so many people, like they come back to the community and they say, oh, my gosh, I just went to an interview. And, you know, one person said the people in the interview were taking notes for their portfolios so they could fix their portfolios after the interview. And I just thought that was really powerful. One question. It’s, great for the for the group we have here today. You know, one of the questions we are asked quite often is, like, will career career strategy lab work for me if I’m outside of the United States? And so we have Duncan based in London, Jamie. We’ll give you Ireland slash Canada.

Sarah Doody [00:35:43]: And, of course, Jaden from the United States. But kind of before I give my take on that, do either of you have thoughts on, like, the the relevancy of career strat job and and if, you know, being in a different country mattered, if anything?

Duncan Abell [00:36:00]: So I I’m massively curious anyway. So I was I was curious to see whether it’s any different. But the the obvious statement being I’d I’d worked previously in the states anyway and and globally. So I knew that, you know, the language of user experience is universal. So to to think that the course was gonna be geared towards a certain niche was I I didn’t think it’d be a very good course if that was the case. And it certainly early early understandings meant that it it was it was singing to me in terms of reflecting the right, information, presenting the right structure, taking me on the right journey, and giving me the right credentials. That that was universal. It didn’t, you know, it didn’t require any kind of translation.

Duncan Abell [00:36:45]: In terms of time scales, it was easy to join. So much of it was self learning as well. There was a lot of feedback. There were a lot of people who came online at different times, and that was actually really useful for me as well. So I could chase the sun a little bit. And, genuinely, I I mean, I I remember downloading the app, and just feeling quite I would get up in the morning and see responses. So there there would be that that feeling of a community. And I I don’t think there’s anything similar in the UK.

Duncan Abell [00:37:16]: Certainly not I mean, I looked around quite a lot. I used a lot of research before I got to a decision. And the the thing that chimed with me to bring me in was the climate status. You, you know, you you absolutely nailed my persona, which was which instantly made me think you know about personas therefore. So I made all those connections, and and that’s that’s universal. It didn’t matter which country I was in. And I I would say as well from my position now of employment and and, you know, building a team and bringing in interviews, everyone is coming from around the world. And hybrid working means that there is that ability for a much wider network.

Duncan Abell [00:37:58]: So, you know, I can categorically say that it it didn’t matter at all, that it was in a stateside base. It was, just as good as anything else. That was great.

Jamie O’Leary [00:38:10]: For sure. And the details, the the the frameworks and the course is so well structured. Everything is available, neatly organized, videos. It’s housed in teachable online. Everything is easily accessible. And as a detail oriented person, which I am, it was just so easy to navigate through everything. So whether you’re in North America or elsewhere, it’s really, really very well organized. And I don’t think you’ll get that level of detail from another course, no matter where it’s located in the in the globe.

Sarah Doody [00:38:48]: Alright. I’m gonna I’m gonna pose one last question, then we’re going to go to, a quick tour, and then we’re gonna go to the questions in the chat. So the last question I have for you all is if you could give someone one piece of advice, let’s imagine they joined career strategy lab or maybe they’re on the fence. So decide, you know, which which way to answer this. But if they just joined, what’s one tip you would give them? Or if they’re on the fence, what would you say to them?

Jaden [00:39:18]: And you

Sarah Doody [00:39:18]: could you can answer both if you want to also.

Jamie O’Leary [00:39:21]: In terms of if you want if you’re on the fence, I would say go with the option that’s gonna give you the best result. Even if there are other courses out there that maybe they seem comparable, maybe they’re a little less pricey, or maybe there’s more cost effective option, go with the option that’s gonna give you the best results and has the most detail, the best community, the best mentors. Because for me, I as I said previously, I did work with another career coach before I joined CSL. I thought this would work for me because, you know, I’m already an experienced designer. I have a portfolio. I just need someone to give me a small little bit of an extra push to help get that job. But in the environment right now where things are so challenging, you really need the best help to get yourself that role. So if you’re on the fence, I would say commit to the best option, which is which is CSL In terms of how best to utilize the course, definitely the community.

Jamie O’Leary [00:40:28]: So don’t be shy about posting on the community chat board on circle. Be sure to attend all of the coaching sessions and leverage your mentors, leverage the community, use the opportunity to share your challenges, be vulnerable. I spoke about my challenges with imposter syndrome and also mental health during my journey, and it was super helpful to get that feedback from and empathy from the wider team and to understand that there’s lots of other designers in in a similar similar spot as me. So I would say just leveraging that community is really the most important and powerful aspect of CSO.

Jaden [00:41:09]: I can go next. In terms of hesitation, to be a 100% transparent, I was nervous about the price tag. I was scared to put this big chunk of money down and wondered if I could find the resources online for free. But what I found after doing that is I was again spinning my wheels, and there’s so many resources. It’s really hard to know, like, what that source of truth is. You get a 1,000 different opinions. So I knew from talking to everyone, at career strategy lab that this worked, and it was a proven, like, one method that would work really, really well. And I wanted a place where I could work on things on my own time.

Jaden [00:41:46]: I know people are asking in the chat how long the course takes. One of the main reasons I joined this was because Sarah said I could work at my own pace. I could go as quick as I wanted. I could go as slow as I wanted. I know some people spend 2 weeks on a sprint. I spent, like, 2 days on a sprint. I was moving so quickly because I was running out of unemployment, and I knew I just wanted a job quickly. So you could work as quick as slowly as you want, and it was very important to me because I, again, was doing day care during the day that I needed to work on it at nighttime.

Jaden [00:42:16]: And then if I’ve learned anything over the last 10 years, it’s to invest in myself. I invested in myself when I switched career paths, and I invested my with myself at career strategy lab. And it’s just, like, when you need to, just get the advice from the experts, and it ends up paying for itself when you get a job even a month earlier than what you expected. So it definitely paid for itself. And in terms of a tip, take a break. If you do join, take a break from applying. That was the thing that I think worked out for me the best and why I got a job so quickly is because I stopped applying to 100 jobs. I for 2 or 3 weeks, I just quit applying.

Jaden [00:42:53]: And I just focused all of my time, energy, and effort into finishing career strategy labs so I could apply with all of the best materials and not keep switching my mindset from applying and wondering if I’m gonna get a callback and then also trying to fix my portfolio. So don’t be afraid to stop applying and give your mind a break.

Duncan Abell [00:43:13]: I think that’s brilliant, Jayden. That’s, that’s really strong. I I also had down invest in myself. I I think that you owe it to yourself having had career time to actually give give yourself pay payback or, you know, in a financial way. It it seems really silly, but I I’ve done the same. I’d gone to a couple of people, said, you know, what kind of task can you do? What what what advice do you have? You know, all the soft things. But but what ended up happening was that I would go back and spend a lot of time researching, and it was light research. It was it was actually time wasting because all it would do is throw out more questions.

Duncan Abell [00:43:50]: There was no direction to it. There’s no structure to it. And that actually that compounds your feeling of I’m getting nowhere. And that’s a lot of self pressure. So why not turn that around, invest in something, and then know that you’re actually compelled to to drive yourself on that program. And to do it with CSL, I’d I’d done research. I’d looked around. I’d actually seen a portfolio that stood out.

Duncan Abell [00:44:19]: Weirdly, I don’t know whether that person had come from CSL, but but it the minute I went on the course, I went, oh, that’s where it all comes from. And it was like magic. I mean, it was ridiculous. It was like magic that I knew I had in me, but I haven’t got to. And it it’s it’s exactly like when you’re inside an organization and the organization tries to design its own brand. Never do it. You always go externally because it doesn’t work. You can’t see it.

Duncan Abell [00:44:46]: You can’t see the wood for the trees. And don’t go with the cheapest because they’re gonna design you, you know, the thing that comes out of I’m gonna type in some words, and it will spit out a couple of logos for you. You know, it it it’s it’s that world that you can potentially find yourself on the path of, and you will go to interview after interview if you’re lucky enough to get there and you won’t get there. If you dedicate and you actually invest in this in a program like this, I mean, I I I got confidence back from CSL. I got structure from CSL. I got expertise and community. And, genuinely, I I got clarity of who I was. And that that’s not something that you’re gonna get from and we can make your portfolio from you or you.

Duncan Abell [00:45:32]: It it it wasn’t that shallow. It was it was so much deeper. So, yeah, for me, I I I couldn’t advocate enough for for joining.

Sarah Doody [00:45:40]: Well, thank you all for sharing, like, these tips. I think they’re gonna be really helpful for anyone who might be on the fence or for anyone that that does decide to join, like, to to your point, Jaden, like, take a break, stop applying, all of the things I think are super, super helpful. I wanna I wanna I know Becca has been very active in the chat. I said we were going to do a quick little tour. So because I know some of you said, what’s this app, and what do I get and all this stuff. So we said career strategy lab is divided into these 5 sprints. So it’s all about how do we design, market, and sell the product of you. We’ve kinda heard this theme throughout.

Sarah Doody [00:46:22]: Right? We’re designing, we’re selling, we’re marketing, and we’re treating ourselves as a product. And so these 5 sprints, we talked about the road map, the resume and port or resume and LinkedIn, the job search portfolio and preparing for interviews. And so as you move through these 5 sprints, you’ll really be living in, 2 main kind of platforms that we use. The first one would be our curriculum and tutorial platform where when you join, you get access to all these courses. That’s the terminology inside this platform. So this is, you know, the first sprint built with that roadmap. And we have resume, LinkedIn, job search portfolio. We also have, critique vault of, like, resume critiques, portfolio critiques, all the call recordings, etcetera.

Sarah Doody [00:47:16]: But if we were to click into one of these, just so you can see how granular it is, like for the resume one, it’s a combination of little very micro lessons. Some of them also contain text. And then as you go through, you know, when we get down to the actual writing of your resume, you just watch the 3 minute video, do the thing, move on to the next one. And as Jayden said, you know, you could get through a sprint in 2 days. The portfolio one might take a little longer, but it’s very, very granular. And so you’re never lost wondering what what you do, like, write your about me statement. Here’s how to do your work experience, responsibilities, education, etcetera. And then there’s all kinds of templates.

Sarah Doody [00:48:00]: We have example, resumes, resume checklists, all this stuff, same thing for portfolio. They’re all structured kind of the very similar way. And then the community is a big part of it too. So ignore all these icons. These are other communities I belong to. But in the career strategy lab community, we’ve really designed it to be a source of accountability through these sprint check ins where every Monday and then every day, we have these posts that people can post on and tell us, you know, which sprint are you working on. And you tell us what are you gonna do for this week. Are we gonna celebrate at the end of the week? And then everyone posts their updates.

Sarah Doody [00:48:42]: And as Duncan said, like, it’s just so powerful to open that up and see everyone else’s. And maybe that day you were thinking of maybe not working on anything, and then you kinda feel like a little fire lit underneath you and encouraged to keep going. Then this is where we have all of our events. So we have lots of events going on all the time, whether it’s virtual co working or q and a’s or portfolio demo day, actually coming up on Thursday. And then just for privacy, I’m not gonna click into all these areas. But as you can see, like stories of wins and getting hired, and then a dedicated space that kind of corresponds to each sprint so that, you know, you’re not hunting around for resume discussions, but they’re all right there, or all the LinkedIn discussions, etcetera. And there’s this awesome alumni lounge as well. Both of these platforms, this community platform and the curriculum platform have their own apps.

Sarah Doody [00:49:37]: Unfortunately, we can’t combine them into 2 that would be I think, upwards of $100,000 And I don’t want to invest that type of money, nor do I have that type of money to invest. So that’s why they’re separate. But we’ve done our best to kind of make it very, very easy to navigate through both of those. I want to go to the questions and see I know Becca has been furiously answering a ton. One of the things we did want to mention to all of you is that right now, we are letting people into career strategy lab because we kind of limit the number of people at any given time. So we’re doing another little enrollment here. And, we know like the summertime can be busy, or maybe you have existing plans on the calendar and things like that. So if you were to join by Tuesday at 7 PM Eastern Eastern no Pacific 7 PM Pacific.

Sarah Doody [00:50:31]: We’re gonna give you an extra month in the program just to give you some breathing room for the summer. So that’s a great place to get your questions answered. Becca, were there any questions that that you think we should kinda talk out together?

Erin Lindstrom [00:50:44]: We had one other question that was just specifically for Duncan. Duncan, when you were sharing about your experience with the the question about how does CSL translate towards the European market. Somebody asked in the chat, you mentioned an app. I’m not sure if you could rewind back to that.

Duncan Abell [00:51:03]: I I’m I’m trying to recall. Was it was it an app, or is that something Sarah, maybe you know better, but I know that I got it on my mobile.

Sarah Doody [00:51:10]: Yeah. I think Duncan was referring to the community that we just looked at. So you can access the community, yeah, on your browser, or you can download it from the App Store as well. Okay. So I’m pretty sure because I think the context, Duncan, you said you’d wake up in the morning and check the app and see other people posting. And I think that’s what you meant.

Duncan Abell [00:51:30]: That’s exactly it. Yeah.

Sarah Doody [00:51:31]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That we use these 2 different platforms. And like I said, they each have an app so you can have the, community and the curriculum if you want on your phone. I think it’s it’s an easier user experience for the for the curriculum on your desktop. But, you know, if you want if you’re a phone person, it could still work for you. Let’s see here.

Sarah Doody [00:51:54]: I just wanna go to the bottom and see if there are any other little questions here. Oh, can we clarify if the course primarily consists of self paced lessons? Do you provide regular 1 on 1 coaching or group discussions or is learning entirely self directed? So Maya, what we’ve done is all of the sprints, and those courses we just looked at, the resume 1, the portfolio 1, the roadmap 1, etcetera. Those are designed to be to be done asynchronously. So you log in, you watch it on your own schedule, etcetera. And the reason that we did that was, like, years ago, I did teach all of this live, but the challenge was, it creates friction and a barrier for people in different time zones. Like Duncan may have had a real challenge or someone in Australia or New Zealand, you know, working, if if we said the lectures are every Tuesday Thursday at 9 AM Pacific or something. So that’s why we made that decision. However, there are a lot of, synchronous or real time opportunities to get interaction and coaching.

Sarah Doody [00:53:00]: So we do q and a calls every single Tuesday. We do mindset calls every Wednesday, they are wildly popular. And then once a month, we do portfolio demo days where everyone hops on a Zoom like list, and 3 people get to present one project from their portfolio, kind of like American Idol or game show style, Shark Tank even. And then they receive live feedback. So it’s an opportunity to practice presenting a project from your portfolio. And then of course, the community, it’s very active. And, you know, it’s our team of now there’s 4 of us in there, on Team Career Strategy Lab answering questions. And also, you also benefit from the feedback from everyone else in the program because maybe some like, Duncan did their compass statement elevator pitch, you know, 4 weeks ago, 6 weeks ago.

Sarah Doody [00:53:55]: He might be someone great to give you feedback because he just did his. So I think one of the real awesome things about this kind of group coaching experience is that you don’t just get the the benefit of our 4 member coaching team. It’s everyone else in career strategy lab as well. Yeah. Alright. Let’s see. Then we have yes. Work at our own pace.

Sarah Doody [00:54:26]: How do you apply for presenting your portfolio live? Yeah. We post in the community a couple of weeks beforehand. Our, lovely Emma will kind of put out a call for, people to present. And then 1st come, 1st serve, as long as we deem your portfolio in a good enough state for demo day. So that’s how that works. Yeah.

Duncan Abell [00:54:50]: Can I just add on to that, Sarah? Yeah.

Sarah Doody [00:54:52]: Yeah. Go ahead.

Duncan Abell [00:54:53]: I I thought that was in terms of the strength of community, it was one of the best, call ins for me. And one of the times when the portfolio is presented, what I hadn’t realized is I’ve missed the previous one, and there was commentary on the refinement of it.

Sarah Doody [00:55:07]: Mhmm.

Duncan Abell [00:55:08]: So there was a real growth going on, and you could see that the person actually growing who is presenting it during the time as the feedback came in of I see you’ve reflected on this. I see you’ve made that change. That feels a lot better. And I think that that that wrap around, it’s not a teaching experience. It’s a it’s a refinement experience, and that that works precisely the way that you work in normal life as well. And that demo day was fantastic. It was very good.

Sarah Doody [00:55:36]: Wonderful. Yeah. So the the demo day is one way to get feedback on your portfolio, but, also, we forgot to mention, it’s on it’s on the web page we listed earlier. But when you come into career strategy lab, you have 8 8 critiques that you can use throughout your time in career strategy lab. So we don’t force you to submit, you know, your resume and portfolio and everything. You are given these 8 critiques, and it’s up to you to decide. You can use 8 of them on your resume or 8 of them on your portfolio. It depends.

Sarah Doody [00:56:07]: But that’s one of the ways to receive feedback and then see you submit your resume or portfolio, and then our team reviews it, and we kind of talk to each other about it. And then one of the members from our team will record an asynchronous video where like we’re screen sharing and talking through each slide. So it’s not just written feedback, it’s really actionable because you see your portfolio on the screen. You see us pointing to parts of it and talking through what’s working, what’s not working. Yeah. Alright. Let’s answer this one last question. And then Becca, you can flag if you think we have urgent ones, but do we think having a strong portfolio matters more than having an excellent resume? So I heard this quote years ago, and I don’t know where it came from.

Sarah Doody [00:56:52]: But your resume is what gets you in the door. Your interview is what gets you hired. And I think a big part of the interview process ends up being your portfolio because for many roles, not every role, but oftentimes, there’s an element of showing your portfolio or one project from your portfolio. And I think, like, the portfolio can help you get interviews. But sometimes being able to talk through it in the interview is what seals the deal. So I think it’s extremely important. And I would say, even if you create a portfolio and never use it in an interview, or your application process, for whatever reason, the very the very act of creating it helps you be able to speak more clearly and confidently in your interviews. Yeah.

Sarah Doody [00:57:43]: All right. No, we don’t have a community on Discord. No, I can’t manage multiple communities. My brain would explode. All right. Well, thank you all for coming. Let’s give a big thanks to Duncan and Jaden and Jamie for giving us their time and just their really candid and honest feedback. I think it was a big encouragement to a lot of people just in general related to their career and job search in the job market and the prospects of, you know, being able to find that next opportunity that really, really aligns with what they’re looking for.

Sarah Doody [00:58:21]: So thank you guys so, so much. And don’t forget, we have this deadline. If you wanna join career strategy lab while we’re still kind of letting people in for this, enrollment period, that deadline is Tuesday. So we’ll send you the reminder and the recording tomorrow, and reach out if you guys have any questions at all. Alright. Hey, Sarah.

Jaden [00:58:41]: I think Lola’s had her hand raised for a while, so I wanna make sure she get I wanna make sure she gets her question in here too before you hop on.

Sarah Doody [00:58:48]: Don’t have that waiting. Okay. Go ahead.

Erin Lindstrom [00:58:54]: I think Laura might have asked in the chat, but go ahead.

Speaker F [00:58:58]: Oh, yeah. I actually I know everybody has to run. We’re out of time. So first off, I just wanna thank everybody for sharing because this has been super helpful for me, and thank you guys for putting this together. Sounds like an incredible program. My question was just around, like, it would I think it would be really helpful to see some examples of portfolios that have actually gone through this process to sort of see the finished product. And I’m wondering if anyone on the panel is open to sharing their portfolios with us just to to reference it.

Duncan Abell [00:59:28]: So

Jamie O’Leary [00:59:28]: Yeah. We can we can make that happen. Yeah.

Speaker F [00:59:31]: Yeah. Let me get with the

Sarah Doody [00:59:32]: panelists after and see who would be willing to do that. And we can decide, like, what the best way to share those is. And we have all your emails because you gave your email to get into the Zoom. So we will figure that out. We probably won’t send it out until next week because it’s gonna take a little couple of days to kind of figure out what people wanna share. Maybe they wanna redact some stuff in their portfolios or something, but we will work on that awesome suggestion. And you’re not the first person to ask, but now I feel like maybe I should prioritize this in our big list of things that we need to do.

Speaker F [01:00:06]: Awesome. Thank you, guys. Thank you for sharing.

Sarah Doody [01:00:10]: Yeah. And maybe maybe I’ll have to ask people in career strategy lab and the rest of the team, but we might do kind of, like, a portfolio demo day where we invite people not in career strategy lab to kinda sit in on a portfolio demo day, but I need to get the consent of the people presenting their portfolios. So maybe we’ll think about that for July. But if it happens, you’ll hear about it as long as you don’t subscribe for my emails because I would definitely put that in my newsletter. Alright. Good. Emails because I would definitely put that in my newsletter. Alright.

Sarah Doody [01:00:39]: Good question. So thanks again, everyone, and thank you to Becca for just being on fire in the chat. Thanks, everyone. We’ll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the career strategy podcast. Make sure to follow me, Sarah Dutti, on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, or LinkedIn. If anything in today’s episode resonated with you, I’d love to hear about it. Tag me on social media or send me a DM.

Sarah Doody [01:01:06]: And lastly, if you found this episode helpful, I’d really appreciate it if you could share it with a friend or give us a quick rating on Spotify or review on Apple Podcasts. Catch you later.